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Post by snap on Jul 23, 2015 7:58:59 GMT
So I just learned that storing a blade in a traditional sheath or scabbard comprised of organic materials is not advisable (just as well I found this out before having to learn the hard way). All my swords have wood and leather scabbards but most of my knife sheaths are of synthetic materials. Are there any potential hazards to storing a blade in a nylon/plastic/polymer resin sheath? What about metal scabbards?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 23, 2015 8:19:19 GMT
Some organic scabbards/sheaths are fine. It's only some that cause problems.
There are potential hazards with synthetic/polymer and metal scabbards. Moisture-proof scabbards can trap moisture, rather than letting the blade dry (which is why shirasaya - Japanese long-term storage scabbards - are plain wood, without lacquer/paint). Some synthetic materials are acidic (don't make sheaths out of them). Metal scabbards can promote rust. Metal scabbards can damage the edge (which is why they're often wood-lined).
As long as the scabbard/sheath and blade are clean & dry, aren't made of a wood which will cause corrosion, or a leather with a tanning agent that can cause corrosion, are lined to prevent contact between blade and metal scabbard fittings, and aren't made of a foolish choice of polymer, no problem. Apart from keeping hands off the blade, it also keeps dust off (dust can cause rust). Do that job, and don't cause problems, and it's OK.
Only had one wooden scabbard/sheath that ever caused any problems, no problems with synthetics. Some problems with some individual leather sheaths.
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Post by snap on Jul 23, 2015 9:14:20 GMT
Some organic scabbards/sheaths are fine. It's only some that cause problems. There are potential hazards with synthetic/polymer and metal scabbards. Moisture-proof scabbards can trap moisture, rather than letting the blade dry (which is why shirasaya - Japanese long-term storage scabbards - are plain wood, without lacquer/paint). Some synthetic materials are acidic (don't make sheaths out of them). Metal scabbards can promote rust. Metal scabbards can damage the edge (which is why they're often wood-lined). As long as the scabbard/sheath and blade are clean & dry, aren't made of a wood which will cause corrosion, or a leather with a tanning agent that can cause corrosion, are lined to prevent contact between blade and metal scabbard fittings, and aren't made of a foolish choice of polymer, no problem. Apart from keeping hands off the blade, it also keeps dust off (dust can cause rust). Do that job, and don't cause problems, and it's OK. Only had one wooden scabbard/sheath that ever caused any problems, no problems with synthetics. Some problems with some individual leather sheaths. Thank you for clarifying that but I don't understand what you mean by the blade being dry, do you mean without moisture collected from it's environment or actually dry as in not lubricated?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 23, 2015 9:21:26 GMT
Dry as in "no water".
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 23, 2015 17:01:27 GMT
Ideal "storage" is to oil the blade then wrap in cling wrap, this minimizes evaporation and reduces the amount of air to the blade.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 23, 2015 20:10:37 GMT
Cling wrap is a quick way to make an instant scabbard to protect a sword. (Won't do much to protect hands, pets, etc. from the sword, but it'll protect the sword.)
I've taken to making instant transport scabbards from polypropylene sheet. Roll, about 8" wide, thin enough to bend easily, thick enough to make a safe scabbard, cuts with scissors, and cheap. IIRC, it's some moisture barrier (but maybe it's some gardening thing).
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Post by snap on Jul 24, 2015 9:24:14 GMT
Cheers. Would it be safe to assume a reputable maker wouldn't issue scabbards that put the blade at risk? I'm guessing that any problems with my swords that spent six months in their wood and leather scabbards would be apparent by now.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 24, 2015 9:40:44 GMT
If no problem in 6 months, should be OK.
Bad scabbards can come from good makers. My Cold Steel Gim (made by Huanuo, a good maker) wanted to rust in its scabbard. Wood was too green, I think. After a year or so, no problems.
Leather sword scabbards I have are from Windlass, Weapon Edge, and Hanwei; no problems with any of them. I have bad knife sheaths from no-reputation Pakistani makers, no bad knife sheaths from reputable knife makers.
(A good scabbard can become bad, if it gets the wrong kind of gunk in it. Abrasive stuff that will scratch blades and water would be the main culprits. Simple way to stop this from happening: don't put dirty/wet blades in scabbards. Clean them first.)
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jul 24, 2015 15:59:47 GMT
My 2¢ worth; some types of tanning solutions will cause leather scabbards to attack metal in the long run. Sorry, I don’t know which solutions, but then the owner would have to know for sure how the leather was tanned to use that knowledge. Also, a temperature change can cause condensation that will damage metal for sure. For instance, the hunter who throws his rifle in the car’s trunk after his last hunt and forgets it until the next season will experience this, especially if it’s cased. Also in northern climes it is advisable to leave the rifle outside rather than to bring it in subjecting it to warmth then carrying it outside. I have witnessed this when carrying firearms in when cold, water was literally running off of them. In this case one is not only flirting with rusting his rifle may freeze. That was an extreme example. Permitting the metal to breath is important.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jul 27, 2015 10:33:53 GMT
I think the biggest problem with storing in a scabbard is that if something does go wrong - like rust - it will be an even bigger problem. For example if rust occurs. It won't just occur on the blade, it will taint the scabbard. Which means even once you've cleaned the blade there will still be rust in the scabbard. And that's not easy to get rid of. And as mentioned may promote rust everytime you put it in there, be abrasive , stain your blade etc. Another consideration is that if the sword were on display, and the blade were in view, you could keep an eye on it - glance at it as you go about your day. But if displayed in a scabbard you'll be waiting until you decide to pull the blade out to find out what you've been growing. Obviously if you're putting the sword into a safe or storage, this won't be a consideration for you. :-)
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Post by Draven on Jul 28, 2015 0:07:50 GMT
COULD be that CLP actually WORKS the way the US military said it would :). That last one really surprises me :). Works better on swords than it did on my service rifle :D I usually use rem oil on my swords because it's readily available in spray cans and I frequently find myself in sporting goods aisles. I've always stored all of my swords in their sheaths and haven't had a problem except on new scabbards, and I think that was due to the wood glue I use. These days I dab oil inside the scabbard core before assembling it. On all leather knife sheaths, I soak them all in neats foot now and have no problems. I store most of my axes in sheaths as well, and those sheaths are also soaked in neats foot. I have several kydex sheaths that I've never had trouble with storing blades in. I do put a drain hole in everything - sword scabbards, knife sheaths all get drain holes. The sword ones are probably redundant due to the chape, but it's habit. Always let a sheath air-dry thoroughly before returning the knife to it. I use a compressor on kydex sheaths, leather ones just have to sit. For long term storage, vaseline is best value IMO. But it is kinda icky. Johnsons paste wax works too. As said, any sheath can be problematic, anywhere. I live in the desert for crying out loud and my drill press has surface rust. I don't get it wet, it just has surface rust just sitting there in the desert.
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Post by DangerDan on Jul 29, 2015 1:58:40 GMT
My leather windlass sheath only caused slight rust/discoloration at the point near the hilt where it pinches the blade. Not cool, but most likely caused by crazy heat and humidity battling my AC. Nothing some sandpaper can't fix. Forgot to hang it up out of the sheath, so it's my own fault. Just my cautionary tale.
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Post by snap on Jul 30, 2015 11:08:46 GMT
I think I'd have every right to be royally p**sed off if a sword I bought came with a scabbard that attacked the blade. My first two swords had crap scabbards. The Legacy Arms one is annoyingly tight fitting and the Tinker one is an absolute joke. But gods forbid a scabbard that actually attacks the blade!
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Post by dacp on Jan 31, 2018 5:20:47 GMT
COULD be that CLP actually WORKS the way the US military said it would . That last one really surprises me . Works better on swords than it did on my service rifle I usually use rem oil on my swords because it's readily available in spray cans and I frequently find myself in sporting goods aisles. I've always stored all of my swords in their sheaths and haven't had a problem except on new scabbards, and I think that was due to the wood glue I use. These days I dab oil inside the scabbard core before assembling it. On all leather knife sheaths, I soak them all in neats foot now and have no problems. I store most of my axes in sheaths as well, and those sheaths are also soaked in neats foot. I have several kydex sheaths that I've never had trouble with storing blades in. I do put a drain hole in everything - sword scabbards, knife sheaths all get drain holes. The sword ones are probably redundant due to the chape, but it's habit. Always let a sheath air-dry thoroughly before returning the knife to it. I use a compressor on kydex sheaths, leather ones just have to sit. For long term storage, vaseline is best value IMO. But it is kinda icky. Johnsons paste wax works too. As said, any sheath can be problematic, anywhere. I live in the desert for crying out loud and my drill press has surface rust. I don't get it wet, it just has surface rust just sitting there in the desert. Hi, what brand and type of Neatsfoot do you use to soak your leather sheaths to prevent rust? I want to store my sword in a leather sheath.
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