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Post by AlvaroWang on Jul 10, 2015 2:16:09 GMT
It is a pretty random thread, anybody got a copy of this book?
I am (very) slowly translating it, and it would be awesome if someone who's also doing it joined forces.
Now, there is something to discuss, as far as my understanding goes, the book states that the oxtail Dao, that everybody says that were never used by military, were regularly given to lower ranks military guys. How come?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 10, 2015 4:12:45 GMT
I have the book, but my lack of Chinese reading means I can't really help with translation (an OCR electronic version would be good, to take advantage of machine translation as much as possible).
Where does it say this about oxtail dao?
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Post by Vue on Jul 10, 2015 5:43:23 GMT
I also have the book but having the same problem as Timo, would love to get an English version. Any of you guys try using the live Google translate app with your phone?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 10:44:10 GMT
This might be a clue, a comment by Scott Rodell from www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4663-Aspects-of-the-Jian " Generally speaking, the Ox Tail is a saber favored for less skilled swordsmen because it can deliver a more powerful cut than the Willow Leaf of Goose Quill Sabers. In other words, if you're removing pounds of flesh, its less important where you cut. Accordingly, it was favored by martial artists with less time for training, ie peasants, tradesmen, etc. vs. professional military, body guards and so on." Perhaps the oxtail was used for low rank unskilled recruits if there was little time for training?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 10, 2015 11:18:51 GMT
I'm not convinced that it delivers a more "powerful" cut. Often lighter, shorter, and balanced in closer than military-style dao. However, much thinner tips, so more effective slicers. Better cutters in an environment without much armour.
They also become common when military duties start being devolved from the army proper (the Banners and the Green Standard forces) onto local militia (in response to failure by the centrally-controlled forces to deal with rebellion/banditry). This is also when we start seeing a renaissance in the military use of jian (by militia). They don't need to conform to official regulations for military equipment.
Some militia units might have been better trained than some regular military units. Qing peacetime military readiness and training could be very, very bad.
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Post by AlvaroWang on Jul 10, 2015 23:45:53 GMT
Page 184, at the end states that the Oxtail Dao appeared in the late Qing Dynasty 晚清 as a standard weapon制式武器, used by local authorities官差, low ranking officials (制式武器), etc, etc.
This sentence is the last one on the page.
Now there are two potential problems to my translation, my first language is neither chinese nor english but I trust more the eng/chi based dictionaries, so I could be lost in translation somewhere. Also, I am translating bits by bits, according to what calls my attention.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 8:10:06 GMT
There are a few native Chinese speakers on this forum - you could ask Lancelot Chan maybe?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jul 14, 2015 6:21:59 GMT
Page 184, at the end states that the Oxtail Dao appeared in the late Qing Dynasty 晚清 as a standard weapon制式武器, used by local authorities官差, low ranking officials (制式武器), etc, etc. This sentence is the last one on the page. Now there are two potential problems to my translation, my first language is neither chinese nor english but I trust more the eng/chi based dictionaries, so I could be lost in translation somewhere. Also, I am translating bits by bits, according to what calls my attention. Standard weapons = 制式武器 yes. 官差 = Officials. Like police and security and that.
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