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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 14, 2020 7:01:45 GMT
There is a reason Howard's blades are so expensive.... Everyone gets so focused on the steel that they forget that the heat treat is far and away more important. That is where the skill and knowledge of the smith / maker comes into play. The problem with anything from china is that you can never really trust what you were sold...its the nature of the beast. "IF" that really was L6 steel, it was never heat treated correctly to get the bainite blade body in combination with the very hard martensite edge. Howard often has to produce two or more blades to get one done correctly without cracking/warping out of shape with the required bainite molecular structure. It is a VERY difficult and precise heat treatment to achieve. To get that with low skilled labor and low cost, high volume production methods is almost impossible. Most people who buy a supposed "L6 bainite" production katana will never know if the heat treat on the sword the bought got them a bainite/martensite sword or not. Clearly the OP got ripped off as while the sword may have been L6 the heat treat clearly did not achieve the bainite structure in the blade. In fact the heat treat was so bad it failed to create a sufficiently hard edge at all. ^^^^ This! Every new person to the sword world gets all bent (pardon the pun) on the type steel used without focusing on the overwhelming importance of the heat treat. Dont any of these people ever watch and pay attention to "Forged in Fire" ? (disclosure: I own two Howard Clark L6 blades and Howard is a friend of mine and my Sensei was there when they produced the video of the destruction testing of an L6 bainite blade, one with a crack in it from the heat treating process and therefore unsalable. The blade was able to cut into the edges of a 55 gal drum with no rolling / deformation of the blade edge.) I feel like the problem is that as a newish person to the swords world, although I have been informed of the importance of heat treating and technique, I have no idea which blade smith to look to and it is hard for me to find any objective fact about a swords quality other than the steel and some specs. The steel and "specs" are commodity's in the process. The value added is the manufacturer / sword-smith and their knowledge, skill and commitment to excellence of the product. The same can be said of anything.. automobiles, firearms, wristwatches etc... Personally, I have found the low end Chinese sword makers to be very good at copying basic things and mass producing them where extreme skill and precision is not required and automation can be used. The complex and precise heat treat to achieve bainite molecular structure in a sword blade is not one of those things I would ever think a low cost Chinese producer to be good at. Remember, the Chinese compete on price first and if you are not there to oversee the quality control, the easiest and fastest way for a low cost producer to improve margins is to covertly let quality decline. Just ask anyone who owns an American company that has anything made for them in china... I also collect vintage Rolex watches, the vast majority are bought and sold over the internet. With all the fakes and watches with incorrect parts / movements out there (also mostly coming from china) there is an old saying with regard to how to avoid being ripped off; "you buy the seller, not the watch"...or in other words, when evaluating a watch, you evaluate the integrity and track record of the seller and if you judge well, you will never get ripped off by someone who knows what they are doing and has a business and reputation to protect. People who know what they are doing and never rip you off, protect their businesses and reputations are seldom the low cost producers.. their time is too valuable to them and people are willing to pay for the comfort of their integrity.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Feb 14, 2020 18:30:49 GMT
Just a quick note, there was a part 2 video. I purchased another Oni second hand. I have had three or five of them at this point, I can't remember. Anyway, I cut with another one of the blades and give it a wack into my stand. The blade did not roll but the tsuka ito came undone with some minimal use.
The oni has one of the coolest fuchi/kashira/kurikata I have seen on any mass production sword. The sword feels nice for how big it is.. Unfortunately the quality control on the Oni in particular seems to be a hot mess. At least in my opinion it does.
As for how to tell what is what, who to trust, what is real? I'll let you know as I figure out. I have been playing with these things with some regularity for around a decade.. I still learn things everyday. The more you learn the less clear it seems to be. Hope the info helps.
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Post by MOK on Feb 14, 2020 18:46:48 GMT
And of course, when in doubt, ask around! We're all more than happy to share our opinions on the sharp and shinies.
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 14, 2020 19:57:24 GMT
Just a quick note, there was a part 2 video. I purchased another Oni second hand. I have had three or five of them at this point, I can't remember. Anyway, I cut with another one of the blades and give it a wack into my stand. The blade did not roll but the tsuka ito came undone with some minimal use. The oni has one of the coolest fuchi/kashira/kurikata I have seen on any mass production sword. The sword feels nice for how big it is.. Unfortunately the quality control on the Oni in particular seems to be a hot mess. At least in my opinion it does. As for how to tell what is what, who to trust, what is real? I'll let you know as I figure out. I have been playing with these things with some regularity for around a decade.. I still learn things everyday. The more you learn the less clear it seems to be. Hope the info helps. Thanks for taking the time to share your review. Most people are buying these things blind. Too bad to hear about the inconsistency with the Oni product...consistency / QC for product coming out of China was the value added to the Bugei line for so long. Remember, the difference between professional and amateur in ANYTHING is consistency.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Feb 14, 2020 21:06:27 GMT
Just a quick note, there was a part 2 video. I purchased another Oni second hand. I have had three or five of them at this point, I can't remember. Anyway, I cut with another one of the blades and give it a wack into my stand. The blade did not roll but the tsuka ito came undone with some minimal use. The oni has one of the coolest fuchi/kashira/kurikata I have seen on any mass production sword. The sword feels nice for how big it is.. Unfortunately the quality control on the Oni in particular seems to be a hot mess. At least in my opinion it does. As for how to tell what is what, who to trust, what is real? I'll let you know as I figure out. I have been playing with these things with some regularity for around a decade.. I still learn things everyday. The more you learn the less clear it seems to be. Hope the info helps. Thanks for taking the time to share your review. Most people are buying these things blind. Too bad to hear about the inconsistency with the Oni product...consistency / QC for product coming out of China was the value added to the Bugei line for so long. Remember, the difference between professional and amateur in AMYTHING is consistency. Generally speaking I think Hanwei sets the standard by which all other mass production vendors are judged. They have their fair share of variables. I have seen things that run the entire gambit of flaws but I have also seen them on Bugei blades. If I consider that most of the Bugei blades were priced similarly to the Hanwei folded steel stuff, they had very similar QC. At least from the pieces I have had. Anyway, glad to hear the review still provides some kind of value to folks. My experience was not great and I am surprised there are not more out there so many years later.. I also wonder if this review had any impact on sales? I would venture a guess not LOL
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Post by vanna on Feb 15, 2020 1:05:28 GMT
Thanks for sharing Matthew
My thoughts are L6 is a very hard steel and that is why it cost soo much to make and buy one. Not sure it is worth it , at least not to me. L6 is band saw steel also Hacksaw steel Sure it cuts great , but I can't remember how many times I have snapped a hacksaw blade in two
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Post by severroad on May 19, 2020 12:21:46 GMT
Just curious if Blake offered to fix it? My oni chipped near the kissaki - I reached out to CAS Iberia. They don't stand by their products at all. Very disgusted with this L6 blade of glass! Side note, wow the raptor is a fifth of the price and 5x the sword an oni is!
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Post by alochette on May 19, 2020 12:45:20 GMT
Blade aside I do love and envy that tsuka. Probably one of my favorites I've ever seen.It is at least a nice looking sword.
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