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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jun 7, 2015 12:53:59 GMT
I made a video that outlines most of the info on the Oni Katana. Warning, its a little over the top and has a lot of profanity.
I covered most of the stuff I have to say in the video. The blade looks cool and handles well for its size. The one I tested did not hold up well. Others have held up well but this one did not.
The look of the sword is the main selling feature. Hanwei did a great job designing the fittings. The downside is the steel. L6 can be great if you know how to work the stuff. In the sword tested in the video, L6 did not hold up like you would expect.
Hope you all enjoy.
(Edit) - Thought I would add the supplemental bit.
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Aikidoka
Member
Monstrous monk in training...
Posts: 1,451
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Post by Aikidoka on Jun 8, 2015 1:54:10 GMT
Very entertaining review Wow! Kudos for taking a risk with such a nice blade. The fact that the edge rolled like that from cutting into wood is disappointing to say the least. I have cut deeply into 4x4 posts with my $100 Musashi 1060 katana and the edge suffered no damage. I cut into a 3/4 plywood cutting platform with my Cold Steel Emperor katana, producing an 8" long and perhaps 1/4" deep cut across the entire length of the piece of plywood, and again no damage. Seems the edge on this Oni was not properly heat treated and is too soft. EDIT: One comment on the possibility of the sword being a factory second: I believe Hanwei punches little dimples into the back of the habaki and blade on factory seconds to let the person who buys the sword and any future owners know that it is a factory second.
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Post by Robert in California on Jun 8, 2015 15:30:56 GMT
Outstanding review!!! Professional level video with humor and honesty and excellent attitude. Should be a YouTube video. Very sorry about the blade's poor heat treatment. How about sending a video to Hanwei and asking for a replacement in exchange for not putting the video on YouTube?j One would expect Hanwei to get the L6 heat treatment right. RinC
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jun 8, 2015 16:01:31 GMT
How about sending a video to Hanwei and asking for a replacement in exchange for not putting the video on YouTube? Hommie don't play that game. The game of "I'll post this if you don't.."
If I had purchased the blade from an authorized distributor I might have asked them and showed them the video as proof. I got the blade second hand though and I don't think Hanwei would have wanted to warranty it. I did not ask, maybe they would have. That said, I made the video with the intention of putting it on youtube... I did not think it would get fuxed up so quick but I suppose that is good info to put out there. LOL, if hanwei did replace the blade I would make a part 2... "Drunken Oni Katana Review: Part 2 The Un-Fuxining"
Anyway, glad you enjoyed it.
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Post by Robert in California on Jun 9, 2015 2:35:02 GMT
Well, on my limited budget, I would have been more disappointed to have such a "fragile" L6 Hanwei and would send the video as evidence and ask at least for a discount on a replacement, if nothing else. Would not bother if my $150shipped beater did similar. Would not post the video if Hanwei at least met me half way. Would post the video if Hanwei told me to bug off.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jun 9, 2015 14:08:22 GMT
Well, on my limited budget, I would have been more disappointed to have such a "fragile" L6 Hanwei and would send the video as evidence and ask at least for a discount on a replacement, if nothing else. Would not bother if my $150shipped beater did similar. Would not post the video if Hanwei at least met me half way. Would post the video if Hanwei told me to bug off.
I know I have a few blades worth some coin but that does not mean my budget is unlimited. Most of the pieces I buy I see as an investment and I am discouraged when they break. Make no mistake, I am bummed LOL
Still, something feels a little weird about holding a video hostage pending negations with a vendor. I feel a bit obligated to be honest... though in retrospect it might have been a good idea to contact hanwei and ask for a replacement to test before posting. I can imagine that folks at hanwei might not be pleased with the review but I did my best to be honest and objective (at least as much as it fits within the humor).
I might reach out to them and ask if they would be interested in fixing the blade and if so, I will do a drunken oni review part 2.
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Post by Robert in California on Jun 9, 2015 14:47:31 GMT
I have dealt with Ebay/Longquan budget sword sellers like Katana1980 and they have gone the extra mile to resolve problems (as long as I did not present myself as a jerk).
That being so, I would expect similar customer service from Hanwei or other higher end sellers.
And yes, that video posted and seen on the wide circulation of YouTube, would cost Hanwei reputation and sales to some degree.
Because it shows convincing evidence that Hanwei made an inferior L6 blade in your case....and far more damaging to Hanwei is that it creates fear in the back of customer minds that all of Hanwei's L6 blades are not done as well as they could be.
For 100% sure, if I was in the market for a L6, after seeing your video, I would cross Hanwei off my list of prospective L6 sources.
Why?
Because even with my budget blades, I do not use them hard enough to bring metal problems to the surface.
And if you had not hit the wood stand, you would not have learned what you did either.
No way I would deliberately chop wood with any of my stuff.
But I would wonder if my Hanwei L6 was done incorrectly like yours...would wonder if I had one already.
And would not risk a buy if I did not.
I recall Hanwei saying their HWS-1s was better than L6...than their L6 I assume....because????
If Hanwei has a normal person in charge of customer service/sales, they would instantly be able to calculate that dealing with your substandardly heat-treated high end sword would cost them far less than bad publicity.
So...kind of a no-brainer....contact Hanwei and provide that video as evidence that you are not just a scam artist trying to grift them.
I would be astonished if they did not agree to take that sword back and send you a properly done replacement.
No YouTube threat needs be made.
Any Hanwei customer service/sales mgr with at least a 2 digit I.Q. would do their best to make you satisfied and offer a win-win.
It would be obvious w/o you bringing up the topic, that if they blew you off, that your video would soon be YouTube.
Win or lose, you know you should at least make the attempt.
Your video was fair and honest....believable and irrefutable.
Best luck to you!
RinC
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Post by Krelian on Jun 9, 2015 14:57:29 GMT
But there is a difference. With those eBay forges you're basically dealing directly with the manufacturer. Here is America you're dealing with CAS Iberia which is a completely different company that imports and resells Hanwei (and Citadel, and Kaneie, and Red Dragon, and Legacy Arms, and...). So they would need to have some way to be able to recoup those costs back from Hanwei in China or be out the money themselves...
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Post by Robert in California on Jun 9, 2015 15:04:37 GMT
Good point....but at least here...I buy a defective whatever at a large retailer, they are good about returns/replacements normally. Or refer me to the manufacturer alternately. Perhaps one would end up dealing with both...but either should, I would think, try to make good to keep a good reputation for selling quality.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jun 9, 2015 15:43:32 GMT
I sent a message to Blake at Hanwei and asked him about it. We will see what happens. I don't personally expect much. Not because Hanwei has bad service but three important factors to consider..
1st - the blade was purchased second hand. Hanwei or CAS Iberia have no legal or debatably ethical obligation to warrenty the sword.
2nd - the sword was used or abused (debatably) as it was struck into a wooden stand.
3rd - rather than contact hanwei or CAS I opted to review the sword and post the results publicly before they were given an opportunity to correct the situation.
The sword is my property and I believe I was honest given the context of the review but I can't expect Hanwei or CAS to do anything. If they do, it speaks well of them if they don't no one should hold it against them. I'll ask, it would be nice to test another one but I don't believe they are obligated legally or ethically to do anything for me.
On a side note, the first decent sword I ever bought for myself (over $100) was a Hanwei L6 praying mantis katana. The tsuba had a smudge of oil on it so I took a scotch bright pad to it and took off the patina accidentally. I was new to sword ownership then. I went back to the vendor I bought it from and asked how much it would cost to fix. I explained that I did the damage and it was my fault. They worked with CAS and got a new tsuba put on and it did not cost me anything. Not even a shipping charge. Hanwei has been good to me in the past when they did not have to be.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jun 9, 2015 22:38:13 GMT
Awesome video! I did a blackity black on black leather Oni custom too. I agree with the deceptive feel of such a big sword, surprised me the first time I picked it up. Do you have hardness files to test the edge with? -Josh
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Post by gabriel on Apr 11, 2016 4:56:15 GMT
You do an awesome job Mat, Just one thing tho... When are you gonna do a review on the Paul Chen Wind and Thunder Katana?
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Post by lygon on Apr 24, 2016 4:31:10 GMT
Great review! painful to see the damage, Can't say I haven't done that before! I gotta start recording my cutting sessions. again great review, thanks
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Apr 25, 2016 17:39:49 GMT
You do an awesome job Mat, Just one thing tho... When are you gonna do a review on the Paul Chen Wind and Thunder Katana? 8D Gotta get one first.. They don't come up for sale often second hand and I can't justify buying one at retail. I am guessing it won't be one that I keep.
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Post by jack3150 on Feb 14, 2020 2:49:24 GMT
Hi, I know this is very late but did Hanwei forge give any reply regarding the matter? Because recently I have been looking into buying a oni katana but the only proper review I found, which is yours shows some major dealers about the quality of Hanwei's L6 steel
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 14, 2020 3:26:39 GMT
It wasn't really bainite.. just L6. It is extremely difficult to get L6 into a bainite state. Looks to me like it was either an L6 blade sold as bainite when it wasn't or it was a attempt to get a bainite blade with L6 with an incorrect heat treat.
There's a reason why bainite blades are super expensive... it's not about the steel, it's all about the heat treat.
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Post by jack3150 on Feb 14, 2020 3:39:12 GMT
It wasn't really bainite.. just L6. It is extremely difficult to get L6 into a bainite state. Looks to me like it was either an L6 blade sold as bainite when it wasn't or it was a attempt to get a bainite Blade with an incorrect heat treat. There's a reason why bainite blades are super expensive... it's not about the steel, it's all about the heat treat. I mean I didn't expect the katana to perform as well as Howard Clark's creation considering the price, but is L6 steel itself a high quality steel? I do not know the difference between L6 and L6 bainite steel, but I have accidently cut into wooden stand before by accident with by high carbon sword and it did not see and significant damage like in the video.
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Post by MOK on Feb 14, 2020 5:04:23 GMT
Welcome on board! L6 is a perfectly good steel, with or without bainite. The damage in the video is the result of a bad heat treatment leaving the edge too soft, not of bad materials as such. Proper heat treatment is always far more important than the type of steel.
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 14, 2020 5:57:44 GMT
It wasn't really bainite.. just L6. It is extremely difficult to get L6 into a bainite state. Looks to me like it was either an L6 blade sold as bainite when it wasn't or it was a attempt to get a bainite Blade with an incorrect heat treat. There's a reason why bainite blades are super expensive... it's not about the steel, it's all about the heat treat. I mean I didn't expect the katana to perform as well as Howard Clark's creation considering the price, but is L6 steel itself a high quality steel? I do not know the difference between L6 and L6 bainite steel, but I have accidently cut into wooden stand before by accident with by high carbon sword and it did not see and significant damage like in the video. There is a reason Howard's blades are so expensive.... Everyone gets so focused on the steel that they forget that the heat treat is far and away more important. That is where the skill and knowledge of the smith / maker comes into play. The problem with anything from china is that you can never really trust what you were sold...its the nature of the beast. "IF" that really was L6 steel, it was never heat treated correctly to get the bainite blade body in combination with the very hard martensite edge. Howard often has to produce two or more blades to get one done correctly without cracking/warping out of shape with the required bainite molecular structure. It is a VERY difficult and precise heat treatment to achieve. To get that with low skilled labor and low cost, high volume production methods is almost impossible. Most people who buy a supposed "L6 bainite" production katana will never know if the heat treat on the sword the bought got them a bainite/martensite sword or not. Clearly the OP got ripped off as while the sword may have been L6 the heat treat clearly did not achieve the bainite structure in the blade. In fact the heat treat was so bad it failed to create a sufficiently hard edge at all. Welcome on board! L6 is a perfectly good steel, with or without bainite. The damage in the video is the result of a bad heat treatment leaving the edge too soft, not of bad materials as such. Proper heat treatment is always far more important than the type of steel.^^^^ This! Every new person to the sword world gets all bent (pardon the pun) on the type steel used without focusing on the overwhelming importance of the heat treat. Dont any of these people ever watch and pay attention to "Forged in Fire" ? (disclosure: I own two Howard Clark L6 blades and Howard is a friend of mine and my Sensei was there when they produced the video of the destruction testing of an L6 bainite blade, one with a crack in it from the heat treating process and therefore unsalable. The blade was able to cut into the edges of a 55 gal drum with no rolling / deformation of the blade edge.)
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Post by jack3150 on Feb 14, 2020 6:44:16 GMT
I mean I didn't expect the katana to perform as well as Howard Clark's creation considering the price, but is L6 steel itself a high quality steel? I do not know the difference between L6 and L6 bainite steel, but I have accidently cut into wooden stand before by accident with by high carbon sword and it did not see and significant damage like in the video. There is a reason Howard's blades are so expensive.... Everyone gets so focused on the steel that they forget that the heat treat is far and away more important. That is where the skill and knowledge of the smith / maker comes into play. The problem with anything from china is that you can never really trust what you were sold...its the nature of the beast. "IF" that really was L6 steel, it was never heat treated correctly to get the bainite blade body in combination with the very hard martensite edge. Howard often has to produce two or more blades to get one done correctly without cracking/warping out of shape with the required bainite molecular structure. It is a VERY difficult and precise heat treatment to achieve. To get that with low skilled labor and low cost, high volume production methods is almost impossible. Most people who buy a supposed "L6 bainite" production katana will never know if the heat treat on the sword the bought got them a bainite/martensite sword or not. Clearly the OP got ripped off as while the sword may have been L6 the heat treat clearly did not achieve the bainite structure in the blade. In fact the heat treat was so bad it failed to create a sufficiently hard edge at all. Welcome on board! L6 is a perfectly good steel, with or without bainite. The damage in the video is the result of a bad heat treatment leaving the edge too soft, not of bad materials as such. Proper heat treatment is always far more important than the type of steel.^^^^ This! Every new person to the sword world gets all bent (pardon the pun) on the type steel used without focusing on the overwhelming importance of the heat treat. Dont any of these people ever watch and pay attention to "Forged in Fire" ? (disclosure: I own two Howard Clark L6 blades and Howard is a friend of mine and my Sensei was there when they produced the video of the destruction testing of an L6 bainite blade, one with a crack in it from the heat treating process and therefore unsalable. The blade was able to cut into the edges of a 55 gal drum with no rolling / deformation of the blade edge.) I feel like the problem is that as a newish person to the swords world, although I have been informed of the importance of heat treating and technique, I have no idea which blade smith to look to and it is hard for me to find any objective fact about a swords quality other than the steel and some specs.
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