Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 27, 2015 21:06:43 GMT
As of now I may call myself the proud owner of a Russian Dragoon pallash M1839. The pictures are from Empire Costume, the former owner. The scabbard is from their Czech version of the French Dragoon and part of the deal. According to Mr. Guinhut, this a 1 on 1 1839 copie of the French original and therefore it has the unclipped tip. The point of this post is to float the idea to do a comparison of this Russian with a rehilted French 1834 Dragoon with an clipped 1812 blade, a French rehilted M1854 with an 1816 blade, a standard M1854 and the Empire Costume Czech version of the First Empire Dragoon with unclipped blade. This could be rather interesting. I hope to have the pallash next week. Here it is.       Cheers. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 27, 2015 21:45:24 GMT
Funny; I was trying to decide on whether to buy the Russian or the two Swiss 1899 swords I had in my que: the Swiss won out. I did however also buy an M1854 Carabinier Pallasch and am also composing a survey of French Pallasches. A cowinkiedinck.   |
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 27, 2015 22:12:12 GMT
It looks like you are further into it than me already. I would gladly give you my notes on the Russian, the 1812 and the 1816.
If you want I could do some pictures too. It does not make sence to do this twice.
I would like to know at what point the First Empire pallash gets scaled down. I like to know how the 1816 blade compaires to it.
What I already can say when meassuring my blades is that it looks like they get thinner, but wider, culminating in the M1854.
Cheers.
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 28, 2015 1:08:09 GMT
Willing to coauthor if you want to pass down your notes and pics would be welcome. If you can match the stats in my standard chart that would be of interest. Whatever you've got is fine.
The reprofile of the french Pallasch blade really came about in 1816. The big change in 1822 was the new hilts. 1804 blades didn't disappear either. Many were retrofit on to the 1854 hilts. I have an 1883 retro dragoon with a reprofiled 1804 that got 4 inches of blade and 2 inches of tang removed. ( My own 1804 is actually a Klingenthal manufactured in March 1815 - 100 Days. Came for the factory with a spear point. The foible is noticably wider than the 1816s. )
Russia made their first copy of the French 1804 in 1809. Alexander I directed Zlatoust Arsennal to copy the 1804 for his heavy cavalry. Prussians also bought some of these for their own use.
Cheers
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 28, 2015 17:38:12 GMT
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Post by randomnobody on May 28, 2015 17:59:40 GMT
I have nothing to contribute to this but I can't not say how glad I am this forum has people like you lot around. We'd miss out on so much without your insights.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 28, 2015 19:35:44 GMT
Thank you for your kindness. I hope I may speak for all of the ,,you lot'' and say we do our utmost to keep you entertained.
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 28, 2015 20:55:21 GMT
And for Pablo who quite often delivers us from evil ( if not Nielo...)
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 28, 2015 20:56:39 GMT
And scary s**t like this is why I don't own Russian swords...
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Post by Afoo on May 28, 2015 21:04:25 GMT
Thats unfortunate, and quite worrying that these replicas are approaching the level where they can fool even some of the most reputable dealers out there....
I do like the chisel point though. Hate to say it, but if I see one sold as a repro, I may buy it as a repro...about all I can afford for now...
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 28, 2015 21:30:34 GMT
At Pino's request I am trying to set up something with Mr. Guinhut. If he lets it go for a repro price, Pino suggested to get it as a study object. I am short of space, so I have no room to spare anymore for another replica. Furthermore I do not know whether Pino wants it, once the disecting is done. So there might be a chance for you Afoo. Now do not go jumping about, I said small chance. Mr.Guinhut has to get his outlay back and so on, the situation is far from clear at the moment.
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 28, 2015 23:21:42 GMT
Don't want to buy out of France to ship international. I've passed two ebay buys because they told me Colissimo will not international ship anything over a meter so you'll have to pay 3x as much for DHL courier.
( So go figure why I just paid 65.00 for a 47 inch long box from Alfortville to me via Colissimo????? - 1882 custom officer sword with M1855 superior officer hilt matched to a 37 inch 1882 blade. Fabricateur Barre of Paris. )
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Post by Afoo on May 28, 2015 23:30:50 GMT
At Pino's request I am trying to set up something with Mr. Guinhut. If he lets it go for a repro price, Pino suggested to get it as a study object. I am short of space, so I have no room to spare anymore for another replica. Furthermore I do not know whether Pino wants it, once the disecting is done. So there might be a chance for you Afoo. Now do not go jumping about, I said small chance. Mr.Guinhut has to get his outlay back and so on, the situation is far from clear at the moment. Oh no, I did not mean that - I meant that if I see a similar item online for a price that reflects its lack of authenticity, I would be interested. I do not want to get involved with your transaction with Mr. Guinhut - the fewer hands the better. It is astounding the quality of some repros, though given the prices some of them are asking on ebay, its probably more lucrative than counterfeiting cold hard cash |
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Post by Aurélien on May 28, 2015 23:31:16 GMT
As a French, I can tell you Collissimo DOES ship parcels over a meter. Otherwise, I won't be able to sell katana to our American fellow forumites  |
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 29, 2015 16:55:16 GMT
Latest news:
Mr. Guinhut wants to keep the Dragoon after all.
Says the grip on it is better that his French Dragoon ones, so he will be using it as a template. End of story.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 0:45:44 GMT
Finally managed to get back on track with the login.
The Russian model 1826 has been reproduced by an obscure Indian company and some of those repros do come out once in a while in reputed auction sites where they fetch very very high prices.
I am glad encountering them for the first time when IMA-USA was selling some in the early 2000's for 200$ since sources are scarce about this model it was worth knowing repros of it existed.
With this sword pattern the best clues are the numbers 14 and 11 stamped on the blade and the date of 1839 which is not encountered on any cuirassier sword (that and the usual crude Indian manufacturer signature font).
I think that mr. Guinhut's decision is wise indeed, keep the model (and this topic) as a template because knowing the repros saves sweat and a lot of money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 22:10:31 GMT
Funny; I was trying to decide on whether to buy the Russian or the two Swiss 1899 swords I had in my que: the Swiss won out. I did however also buy an M1854 Carabinier Pallasch and am also composing a survey of French Pallasches. A cowinkiedinck. Ah shoot, and I also have an article ready about all the broadswords influenced by the French cuirassier sword...What's with the pallasches hat seem to attract so much attention?! |
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 31, 2015 22:49:26 GMT
It's just a matter of Newton's 4th law of gravity:
"If there are but 2 or even 5 persons in a grocery store at any one time, they will inevitably all want the same thing at the same time and place. ANd all have the #@!&! grocery cart in the store.
Don't let that defer you from posting though... :)
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