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Post by svante on May 16, 2015 22:36:12 GMT
A lot of knowledgeable people on the this forum when it comes to antique sabres, so what do you guys think where some of the best models ever made by nation and similarly some of the biggest flops. I will go first, British: 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre, loved, feared and respected by all. French: Plenty of French Sabres, so i will just give one 1845 Infantry Adjudant Sabre. Excellent cut and thrust sword who's only fault was in having a horn grip that often saw damage and had to be replaced, other than that it performed extremely well and was a brutal blade to boot. My knowledge is limited so i cant speak for other nations, been reading up on the 18th and 19th century because you guys have made the subject very pleasant to read on this forum, so far i'm still at the two big boys (France and Britain). As for bad designs, it would seem the British where very hit and miss, from what i have collected pre-late 18th century they had a bunch of heavy useless clubs at there disposal, but i will let you school me on the subject . Svante Nilsson, Crusher of shell fish and drinker of mead.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 2:34:13 GMT
That's a very interesting topic Svante! I'm curious to know what model will come out often.
I guess one can easily identify some of the best design by how much they influenced other models: - the stirrup hilt models - Bavarian 1788 sword - British 1796 LC model & 1821 LC and HC models - French An IX-XI LC and HC swords & then the 1822 LC model
Since there is no worst or best sword model it depends on individual preference or tactical context so here are some of those I personally like. I choose them on how they rate in terms of looks, handling and overall performance:
- Britain LC 1796 & SSgt 1905 - French LC 1822-83, HC 1854, 1896 and 1923 - Prussian 1811, IOD 1889, artillery model 1848 and all their HC models (pallasch) - Swiss 1867 model - Italian 1855 model - Spanish 1907 - Chilean 1889 cavalry model (German version) - Japanese Gunto (Gendaito vs machine made blades) and Kyu-Gunto - the(Russian) Shashka
Some of the least successful models: -Persian Shashka (too heavy and clumsy compared to the Russian Dragoon sword) -Austrian cavalry trooper model 1904 (lacks good balance) -Spanish model 1895 (uncomfortable despite the ergonomic grip) -Swedish cavalry model 1893 (long and heavy)
I never handled the British HC 1796 so I can't say how bad it allegedly is. I'll add more if I can recall them.
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Post by Afoo on May 17, 2015 3:41:03 GMT
How about the Italian 1871? The Argentinian 1889 is also quite nice as well I find.
I have a Spanish 1895. I would add that the hilt is not even that ergonomic at all (feels a bit too small and confined, no room to move or maneuver).
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Post by Bertek on May 17, 2015 14:15:24 GMT
Some of the least successful models: -Persian Shashka (too heavy and clumsy compared to the Russian Dragoon sword) I'm curious about what you wrote about the Persian version of the Russian dragoon shashka. Other than a rough finish it is pretty much the same design as the Russian dragoon shashka (the parts are interchangeable). And if I read it correctly, according to the book "Russian Military Swords 1798-1946" by Janusz Jaroslawski the Persian shashka was manufactured at the Zlatoust factory where many of the Russian shashkas were made. I have three of the Persian ones and they all weigh under 780 grams (older examples are heavier than later examples), if one were to properly finish the blade it would weigh a little less. The shashkas made for Persia have distal tapers, and a balance point around 7 inches. I sharped one and cut with it quite often and find it to be entirely serviceable for a period weapon.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 14:54:44 GMT
Bertek, the 2 Persian sabre I held were definitely heavier than the ones you have (800-930gr) so when compared to a Shashka/ dragoon trooper sword model 1881 they were nose-heavy and not as lively. Perhaps they were the older models or they were local made rather than in Zlatoust or perhaps the Russian example I held was of superior quality but the Persians felt more like big German swords.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on May 17, 2015 17:01:35 GMT
What about the British Pattern 1821/1822? Since that design was used (with variations) for the rest of the 19th century, it must have had something going for it.
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Post by Afoo on May 17, 2015 18:19:50 GMT
Was it not replaced in '45?
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Post by aronk on May 20, 2015 0:54:10 GMT
Was it not replaced in '45? The pipe-back blade was replaced with the "Wilkinson" type (more conventional) blade, but the hilt remained the same. A decent sword before or after. As for which sword/sabre is best, that would really depend on the context. On horseback in a situation where a great deal of cavalry melee against other cavalry and against infantry is to be expected, something like a British 1796 LC would be superb, however, it lacks adequate hand protection, having only a stirrup guard, while the Frog 1822 LC gives a bit more flexibility, lending itself to a wider range of tactics. On foot, an 1803 Flank Officer's sabre would be a good choice, but lacks a meaningful thrust, and again suffers from hand protection issues. the Frog models, excepting the excellent 1845 are not particularly outstanding, though the Napoleonic era infantry officer's sabres were quite good, being compromises between an 1803 blade and a thrusting blade. The post-Napoleonic British swords really fell into the compromise category, and after the difficult pipe-back was replaced in '45, they became quite serviceable weapons. However, if I had to choose a single sword to carry every day for any number of possible eventualities, I am forced to admit that I would prefer to wear a frog 1822 LC, as much as it pains my English soul to say it. It is simply a very versatile weapon, a good cutter with an excellent thrust (moderately stiff blade), good hand protection, and good, functional balance. Of course, I am a rather tall person, so a cavalry sabre is really about the right length for me, as opposed to some of the shorter infantry sabres, which look like more like hangers when I wear them.
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