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Post by Afoo on May 7, 2015 23:29:51 GMT
So, I just got a second hand Princess of Wales light Dragoon Sabre from KoA. Looks nice enough, but it does have a small wiggle in the grip. Its very slight, but under heavy load it feels like something is loose - almost like the tang is shifting around inside the grip or something (Despite appearances, its not actually a full tang design - there is a tang, with plated backstraps on either side to make it look like a full tang). Its not a big issue, but I would still like to have it fixed. I have a tube of epoxy and am not afraid to use it, but I just can't figure out how to get the stuff in here - there are no obvious gaps for me to inject it in, and there is no clear way for me to take it apart. Dun suppose anyone can give me a hand?
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Post by Afoo on May 8, 2015 5:06:01 GMT
Update - some pictures of the hilt General overview of the hilt. There are 3 rivets which I presume go through the tang and anchor it in place. The knuckle bow snaps into the pommel (which looks like its braised on - can see the thin line of dissimilar metal all around the back plate). The sword itself is not a full tang design. Instead, there are flat plates which snap onto the top and bottom of the grip. The mounting points for these can actually be seen from the front View from the back, showing the plate snapped onto the back of the grip. View from the back, showing the braised on back plate View from the front. The two holes on either side of the blade are for the plates which snap onto the front and back of the grips, sanwiching the tang along the longitudinal axis. Close up of one of these anchoring holes. The blade fits very tight to the guard, which makes it impossible to add in epoxy from the front. Grr
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Post by Bertek on May 9, 2015 14:04:05 GMT
If this was made in a traditional manner you will have to press or drill out the rivets on the grip scales and the pommel cap.
Once you remove a grip scale you should find an assembly on the inside consisting of a metal plate that the tang is riveted and/or brazed to. The metal plate will also have the side strips brazed to it so that it forms a trough which within the tang rests. You could fill that trough up with a mixture of two part epoxy and sawdust without changing the weigh/balance too much (epoxy and sawdust resembles a traditional material used for this purpose, in addition the sawdust might also make the epoxy less brittle).
One of the reasons these assemblies were originally made is because a "full" tang would have changed the balance too much.
I would remove the pommel cap first, wouldn't be too surprised if you find that the tang was threaded and a nut is under the cap also, if it is traditionally assembled you also might have access to the 'trough' without having to remove the rivets that are holding the grip scales in place.
If you remove the rivets and still have difficulty disassembling you might find that they epoxied the parts when they assembled the hilt. If this is the case put a pot on a burner and lightly boil some water. If you suspend the epoxied hilt in the gently boiling water the epoxy will loosen up and you should be able to disassemble it without destroying it.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 9, 2015 20:53:35 GMT
Why not drill a very small diameter hole in one of the plates.Get a syringe, fill it with injection epoxy which is somewhat thinner than normal epoxy and fill the grip. The thin epoxy will creep everywhere. Be sure to wax seal any gaps, from under the guard up to the pommel. Seal everything! Also prepare the wooden grip plate with the hole with wax, so the epoxy will not soak into the wood on the outside. What ever is inside, the injection epoxy will bond everything together. Later fill the hole in the wood with some coloured wood filler and shape it to blend into the diamond pattern.
Edit: Leave some little gap open at an covenient place. This is for air to escape. You want to fill everything. The moment epxy comes out the air hole you know your done filling.
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Post by Afoo on May 11, 2015 23:01:46 GMT
Thank you all for the feedback. I am not too keen on removing the back plate or rivets, so I may try drilling into the wooden side panels first and see what happens. Where would you suggest to drill? This would be the first time I have taken any tool more complex than a file to my swords. A bit apprehensive, but figure I got to start somewhere, and its better to start on a repro than an antique...
If I were to remove the cap, how would I go about doing that without damaging the wooden scales?
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Post by Bertek on May 12, 2015 4:06:10 GMT
To take the pommel cap off tape off around the pin on the cap with electrical tape or duct tape like a surgeon does with cloth when operating. That should help protect the finish somewhat. File the head of the pin or cut it off with side cutters. You will have to make or obtain a replacement for the pin so get that sorted out before you remove the pin currently in place. The cap should come off then, but the repo makers love epoxy so they might of glued it too, remember gently boiling water will soften the epoxy.
Just out of curiosity, what do you see where the knuckle guard/bow meets the pommel? Can you see or probe around the interior at all through the opening? Perhaps you could use a small diameter tube and inject the epoxy through the hole?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 14:22:42 GMT
One can assume the grip pins are through the tang. The tang holes might be slightly oversize but you need to determine whether it is the grip or other hilt parts feel to have movement. Honestly, I see enough of a gap between the metal bits and grip slabs that runny superglue (not the gel) should easily get down in there. Just squirt it in all crevices and openings (avoid spilling on the grip slabs).
I use a lot of superglue on antique hilts, even to the point of of making a Japanese ray skin patch with Styrofoam pellets and superglue, stained and mixed together. On my yataghan, the pins had corroded, so things were loose. I have used it in numerous others to get rid ofgrip and guard wiggles.
Good luck.
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Post by Afoo on May 12, 2015 14:26:25 GMT
Yeah, I definitely have more experience with super glue than epoxy, so will give that a try first. Thanks for all the hints. Will see how things go this weekend with the cyanoacrylate. I would like to avoid anything too invasive if possible, so it seems like a good place to start
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Post by Afoo on May 29, 2015 16:11:22 GMT
BTW - the princess of wales is back in stock at KoA
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