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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 12:31:27 GMT
Hi, Does anyone have experience with any of the JKOO / Sinosword dao?
I've just noticed the Luxury NiuWei Dao/Oxtail Sword TZ135406 - www.sinosword.com/aspx/pro.aspx?p=Oxtail-Sword-Niu-Wei-Dao-broad-sword and I'm wondering how this rates against other oxtail sabres.
This has a 29" blade, many other oxtail sabres are much shorter, I train with a practise sabre that has a 30" blade in taiji, we measure to our ear holding the sabre in the correct starting grip of the form to determine length. This seems to be on the upper end of historical dao blade length which is a bit confusing.
My Hanwei Practical Gongfu Broadsword is reasonably long with a 28" blade, I already have one of these but I'm looking for an additional NiuWei Dao that's much nicer.
The Huanuo oxtail sold at Sever Stars Trading oxtail has a 27" blade length - sevenstarstrading.com/site/huanuo/oxtail/
The Huanuo manufactured Dynasty Forge oxtail sabre has a 26.5" blade - www.dynastyforge.com/swords/chinese_arms/sabers/oxtail_saber_niu_wei_dao/
The Hanwei Oxtail Dao SH1011 is a much lighter built dao which is much shorter with a 25" blade - casiberia.com/product/oxtail-dao/sh1011
Is the JKOO Sinosword a decent blade? What's a reasonable length of blade in your opinion? Looking to spend under $500 for a good sturdy NiuWei Dao. What NiuWei Dao do you have and what was your experience? Looking for all the help I can get with my next purchase. Thanks!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 7, 2015 22:28:00 GMT
Hard to say without knowing the weight. It looks OK. Rather than weight, I'd say the most important thing is the thickness of the tip. I'd aim for about 2mm thick at the widest part of the blade (antiques are often thinner, closer to 1mm than 2mm, but it's hard to find good repros under 3mm, so I'd be happy with 2mm). The Hanwei oxtail goes close to that, though it could stand to be thicker near the hilt. Overall, the Hanwei is OK, and the Huanuo and Dynasty Forge are a bit thick at the tip (over 3mm). Not too bad, since they're 900g and 1kg. 900g is a good target weight for about 26" of oxtail dao. If the Sinosword is 1kg or so (or less), and 3mm or less at the tip, great. Compared with late Qing military dao, an oxtail will typically be a little longer and lighter, and much thinner near the tip. Don't worry about Taiji dao length prescriptions - that's for a longer 2-handed dao. Antique lengths vary a lot, from 24" or so to 30" being common enough. A shorter one (about 24") can be under 700g, and about 30" of blade can exceed 1kg. There's also this one: traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/shop/chinese-dan-dao/ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 23:54:46 GMT
Thanks that's really helpful information, I'll email JKOO to see if they can give me additional information.
You mention the oxtail being longer than the Qing military dao, assuming you mean something like the liuyedao willow leaf saber, the Huanuo one is longer (29" blade) than their oxtail (27" blade)for some reason, is this a historical anomaly?
I had a look at the TFW Dan Dao, looks a bit too non-traditional though.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 8, 2015 1:31:03 GMT
I've seen late Qing one-handed military dao from 18" to 28" of blade. Compared to that, 24" to 30" is a bit longer, but mostly the range overlaps. I should qualify "lighter": lighter than a military dao of the same blade length.
The shorter military dao tend to be infantry swords, such as sidearms for musketeers. Cavalry swords are at the longer end of the range, and 27" to 28" looks common for late Qing cavalry troopers swords. Officers swords are often shorter. Early to mid-Qing cavalry swords were, on average, longer, and 28" to 32" of blade is common.
This is mostly from memory, with some quick checking that I'm not spouting nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 2:52:07 GMT
That's good to know so my Huanuo liuyedao is historically accurate in terms of length.
I've just emailed JKOO/Sinosword about the sword weight and thickness of the blade at the widest part to see how it matches the specifications you've provided.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 8:33:30 GMT
Got a very speedy reply - Sword weight about 1350g without scabbard, and they can customise target weight.
The blade thickness about 0.8cm at guard, 0.4cm at the widest part of the blade.
How does that sound?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 8, 2015 9:10:38 GMT
IMO, far too heavy and far too thick at the tip. 3-4mm would be good for yanmaodao and liuyedao, but is double the thickness you want on a niuweidao. Not surprising to see that thickness, common enough on modern repros.
But if they can customise - if they can do a thinner tip - then could be good.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jun 29, 2015 22:26:22 GMT
I had one of them customized.
I don't have all the written details anymore as I had intended to do a review and never got around to it. It weighs, iirc, right on 48oz, 3Lbs. Very tip heavy, as befits a heavy chopper. Very stable on the thrust.
I have had it for 2 years, now, and carry it with me to all SCA events, so it has seen a lot of weather, temperature changes, and abuse.
The chape is no longer tight enough to secure the blade if the scabbard gets tilted down. Not too surprising, being as everything on this that looks like silver actually IS silver (sterling). The epoxy that held the scabbard fittings in place has deteriorated and does not hold them any longer, but they are still tight enough to hold on their own if I don't apply pressure to remove them. The ebony scabbard (Real ebony!) has a crack down the blade edge from all the temperature changes.
The other customizations I got were twistcore (which resulted in them doing a custom smelt for the bar stock), and Differential Hardening. I don't recommend doing both if you want them for cosmetic reasons. You get the look of one and lose the look of the other. On this one, I lost the look of the twistcore. On my jian, the DH is hard to see.
The hilt is secured both by a cold-peened pommel and by a hollow pin, through which I can secure a tassel, if I want.
All told, WITH shipping, $500, 2 years ago.
If you aren't going to be subjecting it to all the abuse I have and will continue to, then go for it. Even if you are, mine is still beautiful, still solid (just needs minor repairs to the scabbard), and the blade has no damage, whatsoever. If you are going to subject it to the same abuse as me, I recommend the stock design. Less to go wrong with it and the rosewood scabbard handles temperature extremes and changes much more easily than my ebony scabbard. |
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Post by Jayhawk on Jun 29, 2015 22:36:13 GMT
Beautiful sword!
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jun 29, 2015 22:39:36 GMT
Oh, they used to tell you what museum piece this is an exact replica of. I had mine customized to match the museum replica Jian I also had them make at the same time. Which they apparently don't offer, anymore...
And I don't remember what the name was...
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jun 29, 2015 22:40:56 GMT
Whoops. Niu Wei Dao. Not Liu Ye Dao. I still have trouble telling which is which without side by side comparisons...
Still. If made as well as my swords, an excellent piece.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jun 29, 2015 22:48:07 GMT
Sinosword doesn't base their better pieces on Qing Dynasty and Republican era blades.
Try comparing this with a Song or Tang Dynasty Dao. Perhaps Ming (my dao is Ming, my jian later Han). If you ask, they will tell you what they actually modeled (think Albion, but hand-forged).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 9:15:06 GMT
Whoops. Niu Ye Dao. Not Liu Ye Dao. I still have trouble telling which is which without side by side comparisons... Still. If made as well as my swords, an excellent piece. Do you mean Niu Wei Dao (Oxtail Saber)?
Thanks for sharing the experience of your purchase, how has the rest of the sword held up over the two year period? The grip wrap, the guard and pommel? Wondering how durable you've found the blade steel if you've used it for cutting. Do you use the sword for training or forms practice, if you do, how do you find the weight? I'm tossing up whether to get one from JKOO, I was thinking of getting the fancy engraved brass and rosewood model, but with a plain monosteel DH blade instead, built to about 2.2lbs. I spoke to them and they can build it. Just wondering whether you reckon the JKOO dao are good value for money.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jul 1, 2015 14:36:54 GMT
Thank you. I fixed it.
Nothing wrong with any part of the sword. Only the scabbard. Silver and Ebony are pretty but just don't work if you're gong to carry it places. Looks great on the wall, though. Also looks great hanging at my side, since the crack is toward the ground and the chape doesn't slide off unless I pull it off on purpose.
The weight is most impressive when extended. Virtually disappears when vertical. I have done cutting with it and no marks at all. Granted, just water bottles and jugs. The CS Gim, Hanwei Raptor Katana, and Strongblade Warspike are what I do most cutting with being as they are far more expendable/replaceable if I screw up.
I think you're going light for a dao, but if you're looking at Qing or later, it should be fine. I do all my stuff on older periods, primarily fall of Yuan (approx. 1360).
I was most impressed with their work and how responsive they were with issues with the jian's assembly.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jul 1, 2015 14:52:16 GMT
Correction: The scabbard crack is along the spine, not the edge.
I just got it out to look at it again, because I have almost all my swords packed for the move.
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