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Post by jam on Oct 16, 2015 12:27:24 GMT
Haha! I'm the other way around, I purchase at a snail's pace. I am well outside my comfort zone with rapiers, all I know is that, visually, they evoke something in me and I want to add a pairing to my little collection. I appreciate the advice, and intend to follow it. The piece I linked to, as a display piece is it wildly out too? I like the aesthetics of it, but my taste is uninformed. What sort of weight range is credible for a pappenheimer style rapier? Hi again, I did say I buy at a snail's pace. I have found another pair that I like the look of, they are available from Europe, I am in Europe so no problem. I have been informing my taste with visits to several collections of weaponry and armories, and I really like the look of this pair. But would still like any opinions on this sword and dagger - the rapier seems very light (I think I would like light). What do you think? irongatearmory.com/swords/rapiers_and_basket-hilted_swords/classical_rapier |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 16, 2015 12:46:00 GMT
Haha! I'm the other way around, I purchase at a snail's pace. I am well outside my comfort zone with rapiers, all I know is that, visually, they evoke something in me and I want to add a pairing to my little collection. I appreciate the advice, and intend to follow it. The piece I linked to, as a display piece is it wildly out too? I like the aesthetics of it, but my taste is uninformed. What sort of weight range is credible for a pappenheimer style rapier? Hi again, I did say I buy at a snail's pace. I have found another pair that I like the look of, they are available from Europe, I am in Europe so no problem. I have been informing my taste with visits to several collections of weaponry and armories, and I really like the look of this pair. But would still like any opinions on this sword and dagger - the rapier seems very light (I think I would like light). What do you think? irongatearmory.com/swords/rapiers_and_basket-hilted_swords/classical_rapierVery delicate. Civilian dress. Windlass does a decent job with putting enough stiffness in the blade to make this sort of piece work. A two pound rapier is an extreme case on the bell curve. That's not to say such don't exist, just to realize that it is much lighter than the norm. (Not military grade in that vague world between cut and thrust and rapier categorys.) Aesthetics has a lot to do with what you are willing to spend your money on. Because this is a custom remake you will probably lose 60% of your investment once purchased. ( Just pointing out the downside of custom tailored purchasing. ) |
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Post by jam on Oct 16, 2015 13:16:50 GMT
Thanks Dave, it's the civilian lighter type that I seem to like. I like the look of the papenheimers but they seem to be very heavy - which is not what I want. There seems to be a fem in stock there, so I will think about this some more.
WOuld this be in a style of a dueling type weapon?
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 16, 2015 15:51:46 GMT
Thanks Dave, it's the civilian lighter type that I seem to like. I like the look of the pappenheimers but they seem to be very heavy - which is not what I want. There seems to be a fem in stock there, so I will think about this some more. Would this be in a style of a dueling type weapon? I'm a bit vague on the rules of the duel in it's earlier forms. What we think of as the code duello was a late 18th century development. I get the notion that the weapons of an arranged duel was a subject negotiated by the parties involved. ( There are records of many duels coming down to biting and eye gouging so decisions on weapons was probably just to give the seconds something to do... ;) ) Might look a little harder at the current MRL catalog to compare what's available. ( Probably nothing as a set that's that light. The Pilsen and Medici dagger would work as a "light option", otherwise do the Irongate.... ) |
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Post by jam on Oct 28, 2015 13:03:31 GMT
Hi Dave
What do you mean by "custom tailored"? I can't find this sword on Windlass's website, does this have something to do with it?
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Post by MOK on Oct 28, 2015 17:13:24 GMT
Hi Dave What do you mean by "custom tailored"? I can't find this sword on Windlass's website, does this have something to do with it? It's a discontinued model, i.e. Windlass doesn't produce or sell them anymore. Irongate Armory is a Finnish retailer of Windlass products that sometimes orders batches of discontinued models made specially for them when there's enough interest from the buying public to make it profitable. The smaller production runs necessitate an increase in price, though they do go out of their way to keep it reasonable. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 28, 2015 21:49:56 GMT
Hi Dave What do you mean by "custom tailored"? I can't find this sword on Windlass's website, does this have something to do with it? MOK answered the question. Just making the observation that buying something that is ressurected at a premium for limited production plus dealing with an overseas vendor will add costs you can't pass on in resale, in most cases. ( "cept for nuts like me who will pay extra to get something that strikes my fancy.) |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 28, 2015 23:06:38 GMT
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Post by jam on Oct 29, 2015 12:43:35 GMT
Hi Dave What do you mean by "custom tailored"? I can't find this sword on Windlass's website, does this have something to do with it? MOK answered the question. Just making the observation that buying something that is ressurected at a premium for limited production plus dealing with an overseas vendor will add costs you can't pass on in resale, in most cases. ( "cept for nuts like me who will pay extra to get something that strikes my fancy.) I see, thanks. I wonder why they continue to get Windlass to make it as a special. Is it because it is such a wonderful, must-have, sword? But, in that case why did Windlass discontinue it? Or is it for some other reason, thaty I just can't think of? Reenactors, or sports fencers or some such? |
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Post by howler on Aug 5, 2016 3:13:24 GMT
I meant matched to the system.
For example in Capofero , the dagger has no “side rings” and is a simple curved quillon. If you use a side ring, you cannot parry in the manner described. Even a straight quillon would not provide the required ideal. So the dagger is “matched to the system”. (The rapier is also matched to the system)
As to the weight of the rapier being the demise of the dagger, I do not believe this to be the case. The concept of the duel changed to a more “sport” ideal, that is, of a ”level playing field”. Instead of skill with various weapon combinations and guards, it became increasingly about simple movements (reduction in guards etc); designed to demonstrate “courage” and gentleman behaviour dictated by social mores. See the small sword as the evolution of this concept. The reality is, the dagger was “banned”, (Unacceptable by social convention, and eventually duelling law) hence the cloak became the ”off- hand weapon”.
Fashion is possibly THE most important aspect of the rapier fight. Duels could only be done by what was accepted socially.
The same ideal today. It is unacceptable to beat someone “empty handed”. Yet we tolerate the duel, where if we “obey the rules” it is socially acceptable. IE boxing , wrestling, MMA etc.
Rapier, small sword etc, makes little sense without the social conventions that go with them. I agree. The dagger would always be superior for dueling, self defense, etc. It was still used on the "streets" among the commoners, where the rules, late at night, behind the pub, would be whatever the angry hearts of the combatants wanted them to be. In high society, they began to shy away from death matches (as many noble person was killed), and the dead piled up. Honor (and more importantly FASHION) could be satisfied with rules that lowered the body count. In the end, you had "court" swords that were hardly functional, brittle, clothing accessories...a FAR cry from the rapiers (with dagger) and beefy smallswords...both of which would be used for self defense (and even some military applications), as they would be used against all the nasty stuff of the time (including polearms). |
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