Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 15:03:36 GMT
I'll have to say I'm kind of disappointed to learn the Pro Elite is made of 1065, and passed over the Cheness swords made of the same steel in favor of the 30" 9260 Spring Steel Katana. However, I'm even more disappointed to notice the Koi not only has a factory second saya, according to the KoA site the habaki and base of the blade have a small hole punched in them to mark them as seconds. Something the Shinto isn't stated to have, and I only noticed today. So not only is the saya effected, to a degree so is the blade, which is a real bummer. So I'll probably still go with the Practical Pro Elite since it's no doubt is a better sword than the Cheness. It's still the size I want the the SBG review made it look pretty nice. The guy I know who has a Paul Chen Wakizashi has one of the higher end pieces and is kind of an arse, and while we're not really friends and he might not ever see it, if I got one of the seconds and he turned his nose up at it while I was holding it think I'd have an overwhelming urge to...ignore it like nothing happened. And I probably would better off getting a nice sword I didn't have to mess with as my first anyway.
|
|
|
Post by waz1977 on Mar 28, 2015 15:34:13 GMT
Reading you review I came across these two swords you might be interested in. Munetoshi Katana Munetoshi Katana for sale is an extremely exact copy of the type 98 katana that got used in world war 2 by the Japanese Army, measuring 68.5 cm in length, the blade is carefully assembled with high carbon T10 steel and has been given a clayed Midare authentic hamon. It has been honed to a dangerously sharp edge that is battle prepared. Tsuka is made of hard wood, two bamboo mekugi secures the tang to the tsuka. A metal menuki is found on each one side of the handle, casing is made of a hard wood with an olive green polished completion and a metal Koiguchi. Katana has a total weight of 1.04 kg. - See more at: www.ninjasword.co.uk/katana-for-sale/Warrior katana Warrior katana Swords are all about performance, warrior katana is an attractive sword – its purpose is to cut through anything that gets in its way. Total length is 101.9 cm accompanying a handle 11 3/8″long, wrapped in black braid cord. Blade length is 73.4 cm and made from 1055 high carbon steel with a thickness of 7 mm. Katana warrior sword is a strong sword built to withstand the stress of battle. These warrior katana swords for sale are high performance and come at an affordable price. Sword has a total weight of 1.2 kg accompanying a black lacquered wood scabbard. - See more at: www.ninjasword.co.uk/swords/
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 16:03:34 GMT
Hi Waz1977, Thanks for the links. I do like that Munetoshi WWII style, and think I saw it while I was looking the other day, but that's a little more than I have to spend. I checked out the site the Warrior Katana linked to and it looks like a Cold Steel sword. I know they're reputable swords, and I have a Cold Steel cruciform cane sword, but will probably go with the bigger Hanwei. That CS cruciform is one with the steel head, where the POB is right about at my index finger to balance out nicely, and like a giant needle.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Mar 29, 2015 1:59:30 GMT
I'll have to say I'm kind of disappointed to learn the Pro Elite is made of 1065, and passed over the Cheness swords made of the same steel in favor of the 30" 9260 Spring Steel Katana. However, I'm even more disappointed to notice the Koi not only has a factory second saya, according to the KoA site the habaki and base of the blade have a small hole punched in them to mark them as seconds. Something the Shinto isn't stated to have, and I only noticed today. So not only is the saya effected, to a degree so is the blade, which is a real bummer. :( So I'll probably still go with the Practical Pro Elite since it's no doubt is a better sword than the Cheness. It's still the size I want the the SBG review made it look pretty nice. The guy I know who has a Paul Chen Wakizashi has one of the higher end pieces and is kind of an arse, and while we're not really friends and he might not ever see it, if I got one of the seconds and he turned his nose up at it while I was holding it think I'd have an overwhelming urge to...ignore it like nothing happened. :P And I probably would better off getting a nice sword I didn't have to mess with as my first anyway. Don't hate the steel. 1065 is very good and easy to heat treat compared to other steels with higher carbon content (and easier to grind/polish). i've looked at those Hanwei seconds at KOA for quite a while. Trust me - they are killer deals. Saya issues are minor compared to the sword you'll be getting anyway :)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 3:13:50 GMT
Thanks, Croccifixo, I appreciate your input.
I did notice that on the nihonzashi.com "types of steel" page I referenced that they rated the High Carbon Differentially Tempered Steel used in the Hanwei Practical line as having the same Durability and Edge Retention as the T10 Differentially Tempered used in the Shinto. I'm just not very knowledgeable on the whole subject, and since that's what the lower end Cheness swords seemed to be made from was disappointed to find out that's what the Hanwei Pro was made of.
I don't know where I got the idea, but thought they were made of 5160 DH with a HRC60 edge and HRC40 back. Maybe I need to spend that $400 on a new pair of glasses, or at least finish my morning coffee before I start researching.
The photos I saw didn't look like the Koi actually had a hole punched though the blade, it was a divot that looked like a few mm deep on the top of the blade, but that ruins it for me. The Shinto didn't look like, or say, it had that done to it. I know everybody's been saying the Shinto is a much better sword, and this isn't the only place I've seen it talked highly of. It's still 6 days before I can make my purchase and I might end up getting one yet. I know I'll never be able to afford one that isn't a second without saving up for months to get it if I pass this up, so I am flexible on my decisions.
At 39" and 33 oz, the Shinto isn't that much different than my Yagyu bokken at 40" and 18-19 oz (I have a red oak that's heavier), and I may be able to make the transition from something I'm very comfortable with to something I've never handled with minimum difficulty by going with the Shinto (though I know the balance will be different), and may be the most common sense approach to buying my first sword when it comes down to it.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Mar 29, 2015 4:53:10 GMT
Thanks, Croccifixo, I appreciate your input. I did notice that on the nihonzashi.com "types of steel" page I referenced that they rated the High Carbon Differentially Tempered Steel used in the Hanwei Practical line as having the same Durability and Edge Retention as the T10 Differentially Tempered used in the Shinto. I'm just not very knowledgeable on the whole subject, and since that's what the lower end Cheness swords seemed to be made from was disappointed to find out that's what the Hanwei Pro was made of. I don't know where I got the idea, but thought they were made of 5160 DH with a HRC60 edge and HRC40 back. Maybe I need to spend that $400 on a new pair of glasses, or at least finish my morning coffee before I start researching. The photos I saw didn't look like the Koi actually had a hole punched though the blade, it was a divot that looked like a few mm deep on the top of the blade, but that ruins it for me. The Shinto didn't look like, or say, it had that done to it. I know everybody's been saying the Shinto is a much better sword, and this isn't the only place I've seen it talked highly of. It's still 6 days before I can make my purchase and I might end up getting one yet. I know I'll never be able to afford one that isn't a second without saving up for months to get it if I pass this up, so I am flexible on my decisions. At 39" and 33 oz, the Shinto isn't that much different than my Yagyu bokken at 40" and 18-19 oz (I have a red oak that's heavier), and I may be able to make the transition from something I'm very comfortable with to something I've never handled with minimum difficulty by going with the Shinto (though I know the balance will be different), and may be the most common sense approach to buying my first sword when it comes down to it. Wrote a long and detailed reply but lost it with a disconnect. In short, hanwei uses 5160 in their much praised raptor line. But their other lines have a solid rep, from high end k120/L6, to mid folded 9270/6150 (?), to the dh t10/1095/1060, to th 5160s. Chenness just doesnt compare even with the same steel being used.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 5:29:07 GMT
Thanks, Croccifixo.
I got my red oak bokken out and it's 40", and guessing, weighs 24 oz, with a 10 1/8" tsuka, and a POB of 6.5". The Shinto is 39", 33 oz, has a 10 1/8" tsuka, and a POB of 4 7/8''.
I could probably pick up the Shinto and feel right at home with it, as opposed to the Practical Pro Elite at 44 1/2", 3 lbs, with a 14 1/8" tsuka, and POB of 3 7/8''.
|
|
|
Post by johnwalter on Mar 29, 2015 18:09:15 GMT
Don't worry about the steel so much as the company making the sword.1065 is fine when forged heat treated and tempered correctly.Hanwei has one of the best heat treats on the production market and is known for quality.All of the Practical series are well built swords,but they are Hanwei intro DH series.They are not in line with the Koi and the Shinto.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 15:15:17 GMT
Well, it's a done deal. I sent off payment for the Practical Pro Elite Katana this morning. My paypal account shows the payment went though and I've already got the confirmation letter from KoA stating they usually ship in 3-4 business days. I'm not far from their location so I may still get it this week. I went with it over the Shinto not so much because the Shinto was a second, but because the overall size, specifically the tsuka. When I got my red oak bokken out the other night, something I hadn't done for a while, it seemed like my hands were choking up on it. My upper hand was right against the tsuba and my lower hand right at the end of the tsuka, with only about half a hands width between. It's the same size as the Shinto, and supposedly only 1/4" shorter than my Yagyu bokken, which gives me plenty of room for a hands width spacing and a couple inches from my bottom hand to the end of the tsuka. I didn't see how that was possible till I measured it. The Kingfisher site states the Yagyu has a 10.5" tsuka (with no tsuba), but it's actually 13.5" from the end to where it starts to make the gradual transition to the mune, the back of the blade. The Pro has a 14 1/8" tsuka so I thought that's what I'd be more comfortable with. It's all pretty much speculation and guesswork when you can't hold the actual item in your hands so that's what I went with. I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with it, and if not will hold its resale value better than the Shinto with a factory second saya. Pics to follow. Thanks again to everybody who provided input.
|
|
|
Post by johnwalter on Mar 30, 2015 16:19:50 GMT
That way too long tsuka is kept me from buying that sword years ago.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 16:45:19 GMT
I am in no way an expert on swords, but from what I understand certain styles such as Nami Ryu regularly used swords with the longer tsuka:
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 30, 2015 17:19:29 GMT
PC PPro Elite will be a good sword, and it's quite easy to shorten the tsuka if you find a need to do so. For small info about historical tsuka length I ran some numbers in this thread: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/42342/?page=2Nami-ryu is a modern style by James Williams, he created that art.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 18:04:59 GMT
Thanks for the link, Jussi, that was interesting. I'm a big fan of old B&W Japanese samurai movies and probably have 30 or 40 in my collection. There are a few where they wore a sword with what was a noticeably longer tsuba, though I'd be hard pressed to single one out now. The next time I see one I'll try to get a screenshot. The Practical Pro Elite doesn't seem to be one of the more popular katana out there. I think the only real review I could bring up was the one here done by James Gall: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/4963?page=1#78322"This sword is so ferociously sharp... if you stared at the edge long enough,... it would cut your eye." And a couple of videos on youtube of a guy cutting bottles with one in his flip-flops. I don't know if I'm up to doing a review, but will be sure to let everyone know how I think it feels and handles. With plenty of pics.
|
|
|
Post by johnwalter on Mar 30, 2015 20:22:24 GMT
Yes sir James Williams's style does call for those very long tsukas.He has his own views on all that. Many including myself find the long tsuka gets in the way.I'm 6'3" and prefer a tsuka 10&1/2"-11". With a 3finger space between hands,this is how I was taught in the dojo.I have a Raptor Nambokucho with a 13" tsuka and still hold it like its 11". Its a really good sword tho and should serve you well.The long tsuka should help you with control while you are learning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 21:50:03 GMT
Thanks, johnwalter. I've definitely got a lot to learn.
I've only had minimal instruction with the bokken from one of my Sensei years ago when I was into Shotokan, and while I've handled one for years, have never even held a full sized katana. I've never had any formal training and there's nowhere close to where I live that provides it. I can adapt Shotokan stances and movements to some degree, and have picked up the different strikes and ways it can be held, but am a novice at best.
|
|
|
Post by johnwalter on Mar 30, 2015 22:23:39 GMT
No problem. It will come to you.If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to shoot me a pm. Also try checking meetup.com for iaido study groups in your area,you may get lucky and find some like minded people near you who have training and could help you out. One piece of advice I'll offer as a safety tip.Some have a tendency with a longer tsuka to overpower or rely on power and that large lever to cut with.In doing so I've seen some people use the lead hand to push the blade down thru the target.Now on a target like tatami or bamboo where there is greater resistance,as the snap of the blade "catches up" to the cut,I've seen some lose balance from this motion.The rear hand is power the lead is your rudder so to speak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 23:34:17 GMT
That's again. I've practiced stepping in using the bokken, keeping my back straight (similar to a lunge punch), before starting the cutting motion. I'm under the impression you want to use a sort of "cast" motion with the bottom of the tsuka in the initial motion of the cut, like a fishing rod, then pull back before you make contact and pass through the target?
With a blade going close to 3 lbs I'd think you could let the blade do most of the work as long as you got a cutting motion as opposed to chopping with it.
I live in an apartment building and don't have a yard of my own, so setting up tatami or bamboo isn't something I'm going to be able to do. Just carrying my jo out of the building attracted a lot of attention from my busybody neighbors. If I cut with it I'll have to find someplace else to do it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 0:54:36 GMT
Wow! Talk about service! I placed my order with KOA about 9:30 am local time and it was sent out this afternoon via U.S. Postal Service Priority Mail. Should be here by Friday.
|
|