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Post by johnj on Mar 24, 2015 23:41:43 GMT
Here's a little background: I recently purchased one of the Ronin Katana Elites and and like it very much. Now, as it works out, I'm bad at cutting. If you brought me to a top-notch instructor and let me practice for years I would still be bad at it because my shoulders are pretty badly torn up. I thought it might be a good idea to purchase one of the "scratch & dent" swords from them so I could have something similar to cut with and not worry about banging it up too much because it already came that way. I expect some cosmetic defects and maybe some dullness, rust spots, chips... maybe it will need some repairs or complete replacement of the tsuka before I can use it? Who knows?
I was very excited to receive my new bunged-up-special today. It has a number of little problems that are all just fine for my intended use. I also haven't removed the tsuka yet so there may be more finds in there. It also has a flaw that concerns me a bit and I don't know if this is a showstopper. On one side of the blade I can see a double line which I interpret as lamination lines that cross the ha. Well, they don't actually cross over to the other side of the blade, but they run down to the ha, and disappear as if they run off the edge, then come back up a bit later. I'll try to take a picture later after I get some battery charging going on.
Assuming it has a usable tsuka or that I can repair or replace it, is this sword okay to use? Will it split at the weld the first time I try to cut with it? Will it behave for a while and then, when I strike something where the lamination line meets the ha, will it peel open like a banana and kill me to death?
Also, if this blade isn't safe to use, it possible to repair this sort of issue? There is a blacksmith in town who makes weapons, so I imagine that if it's repairable it could be done locally. Would repairing it likely cost more than just buying a new, undamaged sword?
That's a lot of questions, but you guys know a lot of stuff so maybe that works? I appreciate any advice you can give me.
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Mikeeman
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Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
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Post by Mikeeman on Mar 24, 2015 23:45:54 GMT
I'd say it's plenty fine to cut with and the thing you're talking about was the reason it was in the scratch and dent section. That particular part of the blade will TECHNICALLY not hold an edge as long since the softer steel is on the edge, but I'd say you're not really going to notice much of a difference. Or any at all.
IMO, it's ok to cut with it.
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Post by johnj on Mar 25, 2015 0:49:45 GMT
That's definitely a relief. Thank you.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Mar 25, 2015 0:59:42 GMT
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 25, 2015 1:04:24 GMT
some pictures would help
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Post by johnj on Mar 25, 2015 2:54:44 GMT
I'm not doing so well with taking pictures that show this at all well. This would probably be easier with some daylight, but here's what I'm getting: Ignore the colors also. The colors are way off. That greenish background is plain brown cardboard. I think though, maybe you can see how the lines run off the edge of the blade.
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Post by Croccifixio on Mar 25, 2015 3:56:54 GMT
Those are some blurry pictures friend. But I think the sword is fine. The inner sandwiched steel (which holds the keen edge) is still there, just hidden by the sandwich, so it's fine. Maybe intense polishing/sanding can reveal that edge.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 25, 2015 10:19:07 GMT
sword looks fine
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Mar 25, 2015 11:32:44 GMT
I'm not doing so well with taking pictures that show this at all well. This would probably be easier with some daylight, but here's what I'm getting: ... Ignore the colors also. The colors are way off. That greenish background is plain brown cardboard. I think though, maybe you can see how the lines run off the edge of the blade. Would you mind posting better pictures? I have a personal interest in laminated blades and I'l love to see the lamination line on your blade to see if it's real or laser etched. THANKS in advance!
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Mar 25, 2015 13:03:12 GMT
JohnJ, like your avatar, even us Vikings can own Katanas, as long as we own more Viking swords. I wouldn't hesitate to use it, but if you have any doubts let someone you don't like try it first and stand back.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 25, 2015 15:24:59 GMT
It does seem as if the lamination line, and possibly also the hamon, comes close to or even drops off the edge for a bit. Where along the length of the blade does this occur?
-Josh
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Post by johnj on Mar 26, 2015 0:54:17 GMT
The lamination line reaching the ha happens in a few places along the blade. The hamon doesn't really get too close, that's just an illusion created by my bad picture. Hopefully I'll be able to get a better picture this weekend when I can do it during daylight hours.
DigsFossils-n-Knives: When you look at these pictures please keep in mind that this is a factory defect here. The non-defective ones (or at least the one I have) look quite different.
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Post by johnj on Mar 26, 2015 1:01:07 GMT
Gunnar Wolfgard: I'm no viking. Sometimes I wish I were one but that's mostly just because you lot tend to have such pretty womenfolk. I'm a full-blooded American mutt. My avatar is just the default. I'll choose something more representative eventually.
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Post by johnj on Mar 29, 2015 17:28:19 GMT
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Mar 29, 2015 17:46:42 GMT
I've got a few more pictures that may or may not show the problem a bit better. There's more light, but I still seem to take bad pictures. Within the next hour or two I'll Awesome! Thanks for the pics. That first pic is sweet! I see the lamination line running into the ha. There is no integrity issues because of this. The lamination or weld will not split if it runs to the ha, just like a damascus blade where the various laminations all run into and around the ha. Everything is fine. The only slight issue I see is that the cutting edge will be (hardened) 1060 or 1045 steel in the areas where there is no (hardened) 1095 exposed. So those areas will dull faster. I can't tell where along the nagasa those "areas" are. Hopefully they are not in prime cutting areas of the katana. .
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 29, 2015 18:19:38 GMT
Yep, just looks like lamination lines. If it bothers you, a good polish will scrape off some of that top layer to reveal more of the under bits. No real issue as such, though, aside from those covered by ol' Digs.
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Post by johnj on Mar 29, 2015 19:38:02 GMT
Thanks for the reassurance guys.
I have just returned from... I'll call it a scientific expedition. Anyway, a bit of fun happened and the blade went right through a number of beach mats wrapped around 1/4" dry bamboo without exploding. This gave me enough confidence to try something a bit harder. Dry bamboo 1" thick also failed to cause any problems in any way related to the lamination. Nothing broke except for the targets.
With my poor cutting, about half of my cuts rolled the edge of the blade (all in the same direction) and gave evidence as to what part of the blade I use. There is only one rolled bit that coincides with where the lamination line runs off the edge. This shows that for the most part I'm not striking with that part of the blade and also that it does not break upon impact.
Today's excursion told me that I'd best keep my non-defect sword out of 1" dried bamboo at least until I learn to cut straight. I now have confidence that I can use either sword against as many straw beach mats as dare challenge me without fear of breakage. This blade may again do its job showing how it deals with green bamboo when that is ready to cut a few months from now.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Mar 29, 2015 20:29:27 GMT
Taking into account to only the lamination, keep in mind that your katana has a very slight advantage over a DH 1095. In other words it's not all than much better and definitely not indestructible. Keeping with the 1095 ha, I would prefer to see a L6, or 9260, or S7 spine if it is possible to laminate with 1095. Not all than much difference in 1060 and 1095. But this is just my best guess and not based on experience.
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