Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 22, 2015 14:05:02 GMT
Found this dagger kinda thing. Length is 48 cm. Was thinking it may be a plug bajonet? The blade reminds me of the French M1831 Glaive. Any ideas? Cheers.
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Post by aronk on Mar 22, 2015 14:09:18 GMT
That's a plug bayonet alright. I've no doubt of that.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 22, 2015 14:56:37 GMT
Yup. Plug bayonet. The oversized quillons seems to have been a Spanish Design.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 22, 2015 16:25:22 GMT
The guillons are 14 cm total, nice and wide. A visiting friend who has been into antiques all his life, said the bulging grip reminded him of daggers he knows came from Sicily. This can become very interesting indeed. Normally I am not into daggers and bayonets, but I saw this floating by and somehow it peeked my interest. I have to read up about Spanish movement in the Mediterrean basin. There was a lot going on at the turn of the 18th C. I mean, I guess it to be made for flintlocks? Percussion would place it much later and somehow I think it is quite older than that. More books! Bayonet books! Balls!
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Post by aronk on Mar 22, 2015 17:54:40 GMT
Plug bayonets would be very early indeed. Late 17th and early 18th centuries, though the Spaniards did maintain their use for far longer than most other armies as I recall.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 22, 2015 19:21:06 GMT
Spain governed Sicily and the Kingdom of Naples from 1479 to 1712. If this a native knife or a plug bayonet...I don't know how to distinguish the two.
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Post by aronk on Mar 22, 2015 19:52:28 GMT
To my mind, that pommel leaves no room for doubt, but that's just me. By the way Dave, how long does Empire Costume usually take to ship an order? They received my payment a few days ago.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 22, 2015 19:52:30 GMT
Spanish plug bayonet with a Sicillian style grip? That will do for now. I like the pointy bit on the pommel end. Nicely turned and it will fit a lot of calibers. Very smart. I had an Afghani build Brown Bess once. 11mm ball. We fired it pointed at a solid oak door, in my atelier. It was long enough, about 20 mtrs. Not a full load. The bullet went right through the thick oak (almost 2") planks and lodged itself into the wall behind. Awsome! The joint was blue from the smoke. At the time, soldiers must have gotten lost in the fumes. Are there any bayonet books I should try to get? I am very much out of my dept here.
Stuff leaves Empire the day after the money is in. They are very correct.
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Post by aronk on Mar 22, 2015 20:41:52 GMT
Oh yes, black powder weapons produce a bloody prodigious amount of smoke. More powerful than they are often given credit for though. As for Empire, do they provide an email with tracking information?
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 22, 2015 20:53:00 GMT
Yes, they inform you the moment the package is out the door. As I said, they are very stipt and a pleasure to deal with.
And as for power, read once that an Infantry man shot a Cavalry man standing partly under the horse. The bullet went up the horse breast, though the neck and killed the Cavalry man with a gut shot. That was the good old flintlock for you.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 22, 2015 23:09:18 GMT
Oveseas turnaround depends on size of the package. French post can take longer in the customs stream. If it has to go DHL courier you pay a fortune but get express service ( 5 days not unusual ), with a litlle orange and yellow truck at your door.
Funny but black powder smoothbores for theie rep for inaccuracy beyond 70 feet, could generate 1700 fps. Rifle Muskets were easily accurate to 200 meters, however beyond that you had to use your long range sites carefully. The drag of the rifling slowed the round down to 1100 fps. Story in one regimental history of a Union regiment issued their new springfield rifles in Virginia and the regiment decided to test their new fire power on a rebel barn near the camp. 600 men formed a batteline and on command ripped a huge dirty volley into the barn, then everyone trotted over to see the damage they had wrought on secession. They couldn't find a single bullet hole in the barn. :)
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 22, 2015 23:42:58 GMT
Funny story Dave. I ordered the plug bayonet bible: R.D.C. Evans - the plug bayonet, a guide for collectors. Privately published, so not very cheap. Also downloaded some pictures for the review I want to do on the thing. From those pictures I must say Dave is right 100%, it is early Spanish. Have seen later models now, from the 19th C. and those had straight , short guillons. Think those were for hunting mostly. As with swords they come in all sorts. Some very down to earth and simple, others with blued and fire gild blades, ivory grips, silver, you name it. Never paid any attention to the things. Starting to see I may have missed something.
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Post by aronk on Mar 22, 2015 23:49:23 GMT
Did they try issuing them with bazookas?
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 23, 2015 0:05:23 GMT
Military Chemical explosives weren't available until the 1890. Think krags were the fist US hi powered rifles. Artillery wasn't to be the Queen of Battle until 1900.
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Post by aronk on Mar 23, 2015 1:11:24 GMT
Oh yes I knew that Dave. The recoilless rifle wasn't a thing until WWI. Though I think Napoleon would disagree with you regarding artillery. A well-placed battery of 9-pounder field guns could shift the balance of a battle rather rapidly.
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Post by Afoo on Mar 23, 2015 2:59:25 GMT
Though strictly speaking military rockets were a thing for quite a while before then
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Post by aronk on Mar 23, 2015 3:40:41 GMT
Yes. Though due to Mr. Congreve's ignorance of aerodynamics they were infamously inaccurate.
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Post by Afoo on Mar 23, 2015 3:54:40 GMT
Somebody say "inaccurate"?
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 23, 2015 23:22:16 GMT
Great fun! There is also a video on youtube? where a Roman re enactment crew builds a ballista and tries it out by loading it with an piano. Makes some noise!
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