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Post by Suho on Mar 14, 2015 13:30:38 GMT
I have a new Hanwei Shashka that I just received. I like it very much overall and it sings through the air, but note a subtle yet distinct angling of the blade causing it to be not fully lined up in the center of the grip. I can't post photos at the moment but if you look down the bank of the spine you can slightly see the right side of the blade as well. I know nothing about Shashkas so maybe this is normal? Should I just return it?
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 14, 2015 14:00:42 GMT
No, it is not normal. I checked my original and that one is as straight as a laser. I do not know about returning it. If you want to cut with it, I think this could be a problem. If you just have it for show, I would leave it alone.
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Post by Suho on Mar 14, 2015 15:59:15 GMT
Okay. Thanks for checking.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 14, 2015 16:09:32 GMT
Just checked my Hanwei and it's perfectly straight. If it's enough that it bothers you, I say try to exchange it. Depending on where you bought it, there shouldn't be any issues if it's a genuine defect. I'd say a crooked or otherwise warped blade is defective, so shoot an email or whatever to the vendor and see what they say.
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Post by aronk on Mar 15, 2015 5:40:51 GMT
Yes, that is concerning, particularly as Ulahn mentions, if you intend to cut with it.
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Post by Suho on Mar 16, 2015 15:40:47 GMT
I've contacted the vendor, but don't want to comment too much yet until I am further along in the return/exchange process. However, it appears preliminarily that I am told I will have to pay for shipping on an exchange, which I find offensive. I'll update more after I get another response.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 16, 2015 20:33:49 GMT
I don't get the issue with paying for shipping. Of course your should pay shipping for a return, but in exchange that should go to credit the shipping on the new sword. Shipping isn't free, and while it can be argued that a defective sword shouldn't have been shipped out in the first place, if the recipient wants an exchange they should be willing to help with shipping costs.
Best I could see is just a credit in the value of return shipping on the next buy. Shipping is expensive and a vendor shouldn't have to absorb the cost any more than the buyer... It's an equal trade, not a full compensation.
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Post by Suho on Mar 17, 2015 14:27:32 GMT
Nope, I totally disagree with that. If an item is defective, you shouldn't have to pay shipping twice just to get the item you originally ordered. Vendor is the one who sent out the defective item to begin with. Selling and handling swords is his livelihood. If he doesn't care enough to check out the goods he is selling, I shouldn't be penalized.
IF it wasn't defective, I would agree with paying for shipping.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 17, 2015 15:42:28 GMT
Perhaps. Varies by case, ultimately. I'd the damage is reparable or insignificant but you want another anyway, you pay shipping. Is something I'd grievously off, vendor could compensate after. You should still pay return shipping, but if the vendor agrees the return is warranted, they should compensate. Not right off the bat, though. Too much cheating there.
Bear in mind, most vendors just pick up a box out of storage and put it in the mail. They're under no actual obligation to inspect the item first. It's not their fault you received a flawed product, unless you specifically requested someone take the time to check it first.
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Post by Suho on Mar 17, 2015 20:07:13 GMT
I posted my initial question simply because I wasn't 100% sure about what the sword was supposed to be. I was 100% sure it was not mounted with a straight alignment. You apparently have a much more tolerant view towards what is expected of a vendor. If you walked into a store and saw that an item on the shelf you were buying was defective, would you buy it?
When you order something without inspecting it first, the primary trust is that the item is as represented. If a vendor has such faith in the suppliers that the items won't ever be defective that they feel no need to inspect them first then that is their choice but there is still a risk there that should not be passed off to the unsuspecting buyer. I know Kult of Athena inspects everything before it goes out. I am a guitarist as well, and pretty much the only place I will buy new guitars from is Sweetwater Sound, because they actually run an inspection on the guitar before they ship it out to you. I don't at all think it's asking too much.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 17, 2015 20:33:05 GMT
Thing is, I work retail. We get some stuff off our trucks that are obviously damaged on arrival, and we defect those out immediately. We don't open every box to make sure all the contents are intact and in good order, we assume if it looks okay, it probably is. We do get people who will ask us to open certain items, usually kitchen appliances and televisions, just to make sure everything is in order because they had to return one that was missing a piece or has something inside the box broken.
We always refund or exchange these items without question. We do not, however, compensate gas money because they had to make an extra trip.
If it were me, and an item on a shelf were visibly defective, no, I would not buy it. That's obvious, I don't expect that anybody would. I would, though, point it out to the staff and suggest they remove the item from the floor. There are some items that we, as a store, are able to repackage; that is, a box comes in a little messed up, but the internal product is undamaged and all parts are accounted for, so we mark it down to a reduced price and sell it "as-is" as such. It's any individual's call to purchase this item or not, and if an order comes in from the website, it doesn't pick that item.
You'll find many vendors specifically state "all sales final, no returns/exchanges" openly; others say "returns/exchanges for defective products accepted, buyer pays shipping." Very, very rarely do you find "Satisfaction guaranteed. If, for any reason, within XX days you are not satisfied with your purchase, you may return it for a full refund." Even those cases seldom come out and say who pays shipping.
What I mean with that last bit is, without knowing where you bought it, we don't know the started return/exchange policies they hold, and for all we know, you're getting off easy with an exchange minus shipping. Because, after all, the vendor won't be reimbursed for their shipping, either. They can get a credit from the manufacturer for the defective product, but shipping costs stand.
I didn't post in an attempt to start an argument. I'm only a bit perplexed at how outraged people get by being asked to cover shipping on returns. It seems obvious to me that I would gladly pay shipping if it meant getting a product that wasn't defective. Should I have gotten a bad product in the first place? No. Should I have expected the seller to have inspected the item before delivery? Again, no. There are those who do, and those who don't. I already said my store does not open every package to ensure everybody gets a good product before they leave the store, but we welcome those with concerns to do so once their transaction is completed, and if they ask us to open something for their inspection before they decided whether to buy it, we are happy to oblige.
Sometimes stuff looks good on the outside, and gets pretty far away from the store before anybody realizes there was a problem with it. We still don't put the gas back on your car after an exchange, and to me, shipping is the same thing.
Anyway, we still don't know how bad the problem really is. We only have a vague verbal description. I initially suggested that if it was something that bothered you, you should check with the seller for an exchange. I don't see it as out of line to pay return shipping.
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Post by Suho on Mar 17, 2015 21:45:38 GMT
I'm not trying to start an argument either. It's difficult to convey I'm not angry and yelling with just text, but you'll have to take it on faith.
If your point of view is from one of handling major appliances, I can see your point and concede it's not practical to unbox and plug in a refrigerator or hook up the gas to an oven and test it.
However, when talking about swords, there are no hidden electronics or mechanical systems that might contain undetectable defects. It's much, much simpler than that. If there is an X% chance that there will be a defect in the product that could have been solved or detected with a quick visual inspection before shipping it out then I don't see any good argument why it shouldn't be done. When dealing with a primarily web-based or catalog based business, there isn't really a whole lot the vendor is doing other than passing it along if not actually inspecting it. As I mentioned, there are businesses that do inspect every item before they go out (OK, they don't sell refrigerators!). If I place my trust and my money in someone's hands to send me the item I ordered, I expect to receive it as such. If there is a policy of no refunds or exchanges, defective or not, then this needs to be emblazoned across the site in a manner that you can't proceed with the purchase without acknowledging it, imo.
Anyway, the vendor agreed and is sending a prepaid return label.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 17, 2015 22:01:36 GMT
Granted, all, nevertheless my point stands. Most vendors simply don't inspect their wares prior to shipping. They just assume everything's good if the manufacturer felt it good enough to send out. I can't fault anybody for not feeling the need to doubt their supplier if there is no outwardly-obvious defect to the product packaging. My secondary point is, depending on the severity of your specific defect, it might even be something that a cursory inspection would simply have missed. Mind you, a "cursory inspection" would be 1) Open box, check for obvious defects in outward appearance 2) Look over scabbard and hilt to ensure no scratches, holes, cracks, tears, or other visible damage 3) Pack it up and send it on. A more thorough inspection would replace the above 3) with the following sequence: 3) remove sword from scabbard, check blade for rust, chips, or other visible flaws 4) Check hilt for fit 5) Replace sword into scabbard to confirm seating 6) Pack it up ans send it on. There's quite a lot going on "under the hood" in a sword that simply can't be seen, so even a complete inspection on a permanently-assembled (peened, glued, whatever) piece will still run the risk of missing something potentially catastrophic. Not the vendor's fault then, either. Again, depending on how bad your misalignment is, there's no real way anybody can say even a thorough inspection will bring it to the typical vendor's attention. Only somebody with a lot of time on their hands can really put in a full-blown, all-points, tear-down inspection of a sword; and it's only even any good for anybody if they actually know what they're looking for and can catch it at the first look. When I was looking over my own shashka, I had to do a double-take on my own alignment. The blade was perfectly straight, looking straight onward at the spine I saw only the spine, turned it over to look straight onward at the edge and it was centered evenly the whole length. Then I checked to see whether the blade was centered in the hilt, and I honestly wasn't sure at first. I could still argue that there may be two degrees difference between the central line of the hilt and the edge of my sword, but at the same time I had to write it off as something I could not actually confirm. Two degrees, that's not a lot. Maybe my vision's just off. (My vision is pretty bad) That's all I'm saying. We all expect perfection, but reality always sees it otherwise. When dealing with mass-produced items, drop-shipped by the dozens, from a seller that probably takes on a few hundred sales a day, we can't really expect a complete inspection on every piece and even if we get one, we can't be guaranteed something won't slip through. Shoot, there have been members here who have bought things from multiple vendors, KoA included, who had all been assured their item was thoroughly inspected and passed mettle before being shipped out...but when they got it, it was...shall we say, no so great. Anyway, your case seems resolved, and since we still don't know who you're dealing with and we still haven't seen photos of the "alleged" defect, only you and your dealer have any idea what's going on right now. Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, the places I've seen who've had "No Returns" policies have said so either in a sidebar on the page, at the bottom with all the legal/contact info, and/or at some point during the checkout process. I've even been to a few physical shops and a lot more convention booths with big signs saying "All Sales Final, No Exceptions," so there's my take on that.
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