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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 23, 2015 18:00:23 GMT
I think I may have figured out a way to simulate edge binding with hard plastic sparring simulators. You take an old bike tire with a steel-reinforced lip, remove the lip and straighten it. I used a worn out Nokian sudded bike tire, but obviously this part of the tire has no studs. Then attach it to the flat portion of the edge of a Type III or similar hard plastic sparring sword like object. I'm using bands of electrical tape to hold the "edges" on for now, but if this works out I'll probably make it more permanent. The end result is a raised rubbery ridge made of very durable material that will indeed bind against its counterpart, and then unbind when you wind. I'm going to be doing some more tests on this in I.33 and longsword this week. If everything holds together I'll post something more extensive on the test. The possible downside is that these would probably hurt more in sparring, but my idea is to use them for training and helping people to understand how to deal with edge binding issues. I think this would also be helpful in understanding the old treatises.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Feb 23, 2015 18:20:08 GMT
Wait, you didn't cover the edges but the flat? The way I see it (and experiments with sharps seem to have proven that), edges bite into each other, not so much edge into flat. I like your idea but I would cover both edges of the wasters with the rubber and leave the flat bare. That way, edge on edge will bind and require turning the flat in to slide up or down a blade.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 23, 2015 19:06:37 GMT
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 5, 2015 23:08:36 GMT
The first rounds of testing went well. The swords bind nicely but not too tightly, and there's less bounce than I feared. The problem is there's too much rubber and they don't wind out of the bind smoothly. The next phase will be to implant the rubber in a channel down the center of the edge portion of the plastic, with some rubber proud like a sharp's edge. I will probably pack the rubber into the channel with the vise and some epoxy. The construction of the rubber is very strong with a steel wire down the middle, so it should hold up well. Whether the plastic holds up we shall see.
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ShooterMike
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I like swords, and my snowman did too!
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 6, 2015 0:12:03 GMT
I've been following this thread and I applaud your efforts. If it works, I'd really like to have a pair of longsword wasters setup like this. I'd really love to have something like this imbedded into the edges of a steel blunt longsword. That might be the best of all worlds?...
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 6, 2015 19:19:44 GMT
I've been wondering if that was possible as well. But I've decided to start with the plastic because these are far less expensive and easier to work with.
For steel I think it would be possible if you made an entirely new simulator. Instead of a fuller down the middle it would have a raised portion of steel, probably a 1/2" or so strip standing above the plane of the blade on both sides. The edges would be flatter and wider than usual and would mount a rubber gripper. With this design, the "edges" would bind but as soon as you wound, the steel risers would then meet and the blades would wind smoothly. I think it would work, but it would also be far too heavy using simple wedges of cut steel. So maybe there could be fullers in the gaps to reduce weight or possibly a lighter kind of metal used. It's tricky. Another option is to borrow from smallsword design and make a kind of giant smallsword with no tip and a flatter diamond cross-section. Two edges would be binders, and the other two would wind. It would look really, really strange but might actually work without being too heavy.
At any rate, if the plastic simulators work out as planned I'll post pics and the next phase will be making prototype binder/winders from hardwood to prove the concept before moving to metal. Hardwood might end up being the easiest way to do this actually, though you're back to the old problem of fingers being broken.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Mar 6, 2015 21:43:24 GMT
Aluminum might work but wouldn't have any real advantage over plastic... other than being of more realistic weight maybe.
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Post by Rob C on Mar 9, 2015 0:52:15 GMT
Interesting, If you could provide us with pictures of how it went it would be neat :)
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 16, 2015 5:01:20 GMT
I was going to start revamping the Penti III's but frankly the existing testers have been working so well in sparring that I don't know that I really even need to. Now I'm thinking about just epoxying a hard plastic "riser" down the middle of the blade where the fuller would be to act as a winder. Keep it simple to avoid being stupid. Here's a pick of the alpha testers after several weekends of bashing:  |
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ShooterMike
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I like swords, and my snowman did too!
Posts: 9,094
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 16, 2015 18:06:32 GMT
I was actually pondering on whether it would be possible to install something like this on a pair of Gus Trim's I-Beam steel trainers.
Here's one of Tom's pictures showing the blade in flat view. The edges are around 1/8th inch wide. Wonder if it would be a good fit if someone milled grooves down the center of the edges to accept the bead of rubber?
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 16, 2015 22:20:09 GMT
I've also been wondering how one could secure the rubber onto flat-edged trainers. If someone fashioned a trainer from scratch to have a milled insert location along the edge and a raised area on the flats to act as a winding surface, it might work. It would end up looking pretty weird though and to balance it you'd have to make it similar in profile to one of the beefy Cold Steel smallswords. Two opposite parts of the diamond cross-section holding the binders and the other to being the winders.
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