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Post by Sir William on Feb 16, 2015 21:21:24 GMT
Howdy, While this is only my second post I've been a reader of this forum for a very long time, and during that time I have gained a great appreciation of the collective knowledge of this forum. This upcoming June I'm going to be graduating from high school, and I feel that a treat for myself is definitely in order. I've been saving for a while, and now have about $2,500 saved up for a sword. I've always been a huge fan of military sabers, and the Napoleonic period is a personal favorite, so I want something from that era. My favorite sword from that time is the Horse Grenadier Saber shown is this picture, however I've never actually found an account on it's handling and/or performance. So my first question is for anyone who has handled an original and it is; how well do they handle/perform? My inexperienced eyes reckon that it would be quite good with both the cut and the thrust, but is this not the case? However originals aren't often on the market for anything that I can remotely afford, so I'm considering custom ordering one through either Arms and Armor, or Castle Keep. So my second question is; which shop should I go through? After looking through their custom galleries I couldn't find anything that was really close to this, but they both have some experience with sabers, which is more that some smiths can say. Thanks
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Feb 16, 2015 22:25:01 GMT
I see this saber has a blade very similar to M1822 light cavalry saber. They can be had for a lot less than 2500$. You might maybe buy one of these and send its blade to a custom maker for hilting in a grenadier style... And you can sell the 1822 fittings. Of course, if you think it's not ethical to strip an antique saber of its original fittings, feel free to ignore my idea. ;)
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 17, 2015 0:58:03 GMT
Boy, you just casually go right to the front of the line, don't ya? (rofl) Was this sabre any good? This was the side arm of Napoleon's Mounted Grenadier Guards and The Empresses Guards Dragoons. The Grenadier a Cheval was arguably the finest cavalry regiment of the Napoleonic War's. Their exploits were legendary. The Guards Infantry dubbed them, "The Gods". This dragoon montmerency blade was the precurssor of the M1822. It's curve is a bit more shallow than the latter sabre and the blade was a tad less wide. But quite effective. The blades usually came from Klingenthal and were shipped to Versaille arsenal for hilting. Chavalier D'Auvergne (possibly india parts assembled in France), Weaponedge and Universal Sword make replicas of this. They are off in most of the finer characteristics of taper, detail and weight of the hilt, and width of the blade ( too wide). www.templ.net/pics-weapons/214-napoleonic_grenadier_sabre/b14v.jpgPatrick Barta of Templ swords has actually done one ( Dragoon Scabbard ). His waiting list is 3 years! ??? You might talk to Messr Guinhut of Empire Costume and see if he might give you a lead to one of his Czech forges. Craig Johnson might, but they don't do a lot of Brass work, and researching the details of the blade could load your costs up. A noble quest. Never seen one of these for less than 12,500... Cheers
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Post by aronk on Feb 17, 2015 1:51:56 GMT
A beautiful blade if one ever existed. Firstly, don't go stripping down a M1822. I would have to hunt you down if you did that. But definitely talk to the folks at Empire Costume as Dave says. If that fails, I know a bladesmith who might be able to pull it off.
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Uhlan
Member
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 17, 2015 15:19:46 GMT
Aronk please do not talk like that. If the man wants to strip a sabre he just strips it. None of your business. M1822 are all over the place here in Europe and even single blades can be had for good prices. So the stripping is already done. It is not like they are some national treasure. On every Bourse Militaire one sees dozens of them. Dave's idea to go talk with Mr. Guinhut of Empire cq AntikCostume is a good idea. The man breaths napoleontics. If you want a real original go look a the auction houses like Fisher and the like. Remember: retail may be the $12.500 Dave talked about, but that means that at auction one can have them for $ 6000 or thereabouts. Mr. Guinhut makes a good copy with Czech blades though the hilts come from India still as far as we know. But maybe Mr. Guinhut could look out for original hilt parts. Over here there is a great market in surplus and stripped parts, scabbards, scabbard fittings and what not. It only takes time and patience. Hope you get what you are looking for.
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Post by aronk on Feb 18, 2015 1:30:18 GMT
Aronk please do not talk like that. If the man wants to strip a sabre he just strips it. None of your business. M1822 are all over the place here in Europe and even single blades can be had for good prices. So the stripping is already done. It is not like they are some national treasure. On every Bourse Militaire one sees dozens of them. Dave's idea to go talk with Mr. Guinhut of Empire cq AntikCostume is a good idea. The man breaths napoleontics. If you want a real original go look a the auction houses like Fisher and the like. Remember: retail may be the $12.500 Dave talked about, but that means that at auction one can have them for $ 6000 or thereabouts. Mr. Guinhut makes a good copy with Czech blades though the hilts come from India still as far as we know. But maybe Mr. Guinhut could look out for original hilt parts. Over here there is a great market in surplus and stripped parts, scabbards, scabbard fittings and what not. It only takes time and patience. Hope you get what you are looking for. Oh, I speak mostly in jest Ulahn, though I personally could never destroy an antique sword. How expensive are M1822s over there? I might have to make a trip to purchase a few in the future. The one I recently bought has hooked me... I absolutely love the weapon!
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Post by Sir William on Feb 18, 2015 3:49:21 GMT
Thanks for all the replies, it's nice to see how helpful people truely are on this forum. First things first, I must admit that the idea of stripping an original 1822 hadn't occured to me and it certainly is an interesting idea. That being said, I'm kinda a wussy about changing/altering historical pieces, so I won't be going down that path. I also kinda want a fresh pallet to start with, so I can make some history of my own without altering someone else's.
Secondly I meant no offense to the wonderful soldiers of Napoleon's guard. I just had never heard an account from anyone who had actually held one and used it. Dave Kelly, are you still trying to find out where Empire Costume gets their stuff? It seems like every review of an Empire Costume saber gets you wondering who makes them. That being said I definitely will email Mr. Guinhut and see whether he's in a mood to disclose his sources. That blue and gold on the blade looks absolutely amazing, and if I could get it personalized for me I would be a very happy boy.
After thinking it over, I'm now considering getting a custom blade made by Arms and Armor that is true to the original and pairing it with a guard/hilt made by a smith with more experience with brass. I'm also wondering how good the guard would look in steel, considering how more smiths have experience working with that. Auf Wiedersehen
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Post by aronk on Feb 18, 2015 4:07:01 GMT
If you find anything out about where they get their swords (we know they used to get them from Universal, then started switching to Czech forges for better blades), particularly the dragoon sword, do please let us know. I'm looking at it, but the price is suspiciously low.
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Post by aronk on Feb 18, 2015 4:29:10 GMT
One thing I forgot to mention Sir William: If this will be your first sabre, you should be warned, one you start, there is no stopping. The sabre bug bites hard!
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