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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 15, 2015 0:42:15 GMT
felt really good to be training w/ other people for the first time in a long time.
bummed that i had to pick up an aluminium alloy iaito b/c they don't want steal iaito (which i have) in the dojo.
is this normal in USA schools? i thought that was a japan thing b/c of the sword restrictions.
i guess it's not that big of a deal but i'd much rather have put that money toward a dojo pro or something that will at least chop something up.
anyone have any experience w/ dojos? what's the going rate for samurai sword training. seems pretty steep. i could only purchase 3 mo b/c $$$ is tight.
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 15, 2015 1:16:38 GMT
Not even a steel iaito? Bummer! Lovret Sensei: "Toy swords make for toy swordsmen." We used nihontos...one's focus is different with real vs fake swords. That said, lawyers run the show these days...."got a red plastic tip on that fake sword?" /s Local sword Dojo...assuming website is up to day...$65 per month, about 2 classes a week. Quite reasonable imo. RinC Monterey, Calif: this one has been around many years: $65/month montereybudokan.com/martial-arts-training/enshin-itto-ryu-battojutsu/Just out of Monterey, Calif city limits: I think it is an offshoot of above Dojo: $150/month: yosokandojo.com/classes/San Jose, California: www.tojokandojo.com/martial-arts/shinkendo/ (but I don't see prices.)
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 15, 2015 2:03:18 GMT
felt really good to be training w/ other people for the first time in a long time. bummed that i had to pick up an aluminium alloy iaito b/c they don't want steal iaito (which i have) in the dojo. is this normal in USA schools? i thought that was a japan thing b/c of the sword restrictions. i guess it's not that big of a deal but i'd much rather have put that money toward a dojo pro or something that will at least chop something up. anyone have any experience w/ dojos? what's the going rate for samurai sword training. seems pretty steep. i could only purchase 3 mo b/c $$$ is tight. My Iaido sesei Kunio Miyake (emmigrated from Japan to the US back in late 80's?) forbids anything other than Japanese iaito for his students, and the only shinken allowed also have to be Japanese... it's both a culture thing with him (very traditional man), and also doesn't "trust" Chinese swords. One previous student tried to show him his Chinese katana several years ago, but it was kind of a low end model (looked like a cheaply made >$80 sword), so it didn't do anything but prove to sensei Miyake what he already thought - poor workmanship and too dangerous to use in class (loose ito, habakki, etc.)... now, if someone would show him a much better example, such as a Huawei or better, would he change his mind? Probably not, seeing as I said, he's a very traditional man and takes his culture/martial arts extremely seriously. I pay $99 a month, but that includes training in Karate-do and Aiki-jujitsu - twice a week for Karate, once a week for iaido/Aiki-jujitsu since there's currenty only one day he teaches those classes. He's planning on opening up the Iaido and Aiki-jujitsu classes back to 2 days a week, which would be awesome imho.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 2:26:48 GMT
Everybody runs their school differently, but nobody should have to go without training over a matter of money. You might be able to work something out like paying a portion and make up the difference with work for the school, cleaning stuff, keeping loaner bokken sanded and oiled, something even if its with the understanding of making up the difference later on when you can. In case it needs to be said that's kind of a 1-on-1 subject to bring up discretely either whoever usually takes the cash.
Hope you enjoy it!
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Post by whitefeathers on Jan 15, 2015 3:34:54 GMT
Nice to be back in classes isnt it? we are allowed to use steel iaito. (they feel better than aluminum to me too) Also the factor of space rent may influence prices. $80 a month here.
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Post by Kirin on Jan 15, 2015 3:40:12 GMT
I practice Shinkendo/Toyama Ryu.
In my particular school. my sensei allows steel or aluminum iaito. However, this is after you get the basics down with a boken.
Advanced students generally use shinken.
Personally, I feel that learning the basics with a boken is better since you don't need to worry about noto/sheathing as much while working on basic footwork and memorizing kata.
Despite the edge of the blade not being sharp, it is still very possible to still injure your hand with the point of an iaito while practicing noto.
-K
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Post by wazikan on Jan 15, 2015 5:33:46 GMT
I practice in the same liniage as the school in monterey. I will be up there this weekend. I have 2 aiato. I have a nice heavy ony i use for bujinkan. And i have a lighter one i got for enbukan. I gt the lighter one because my shoulder was messed up. Its better now, but when your doing kata and cuts for 2 hours the heavy ones will start hurting. I also use my like bugei blade to balance things out.
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Post by Krelian on Jan 15, 2015 6:26:25 GMT
Koryu swordsmanship doesn't tend to have as many students as more mainstream martial arts like karatedo or taekwondo so the price tends to run higher. Rent and electric still need paid and weapon arts tend to have higher insurance premiums than empty-hand arts... Also, Sensei/instructors tend to have their own dues/required travel/seminar attendance to keep in good standing with their organization. I haven't seen rates at too many koryu dojo but $75-$85 per month isn't unusual and I've heard as high as $125 and as low as $10 (but the $10 was an rare and unusual occurrence, I believe it was actually kendo with just a little ZNKR iaido and it was operated under a larger non-profit organization).
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Post by jam on Jan 15, 2015 11:31:10 GMT
felt really good to be training w/ other people for the first time in a long time. bummed that i had to pick up an aluminium alloy iaito b/c they don't want steal iaito (which i have) in the dojo. is this normal in USA schools? i thought that was a japan thing b/c of the sword restrictions. i guess it's not that big of a deal but i'd much rather have put that money toward a dojo pro or something that will at least chop something up. anyone have any experience w/ dojos? what's the going rate for samurai sword training. seems pretty steep. i could only purchase 3 mo b/c $$$ is tight. It would be very unusual to start with a shinken. Alloy iaito are preferred as it is the best way to get the correct length and maintain a realistic balance to the sword, these are mainly all made in Japan in any case. It is usually explicitly against most koryu, (and I'm fairly sure) modern iaido and Kendo for the sensei to profit from teaching it. Which is part of the reason we see I-just-made-this-stuff-up JSA styles popping up from time to time. Most koryu are classed as "not for profit" organisations, as are most dojo. Rates will obviously vary with overheads and how many is in the class. It is not fair for sensei and sempai to be out of pocket (although it is often the case), but it is rare for anyone to make money from teaching a bona fide JSA. Good luck with your training.
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 15, 2015 14:08:08 GMT
yeah i had a bokken and shinai already from a number of years ago. i picked up the bokken again and started getting into it. after a few months of bokken training i picked up a cheap steel iaito and turned it into this: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/42910/turned-bushido-musashi-iaito-shinobistill don't have a shinken yet. it's too cold to be trying to go outside and cut things and like i said $$$. but eventually i'll get one of those too. that's why it was a bit hard to spend on the alloy iai but life goes on and it will be worth it to get my form fine tuned w/ a sensei's eye. i bought the 3 mo's at a year end special price for 315. i could've gotten 12 for 1200 but no lo tengo. i think the reg. price is 115/mo but the thing is there is only one 1hr sword class at the dojo / week. no open floor times or any way to get more time in. so it turns into ~$26 /hr at the special price when you look at it that way it kind of sticks in your side a bit. anyway i was thinking as Jon Frances was that perhaps if i put in a real good effort and prove myself hard working and helpful that maybe i could barter dojo help to offset cost of tuition or something. we'll see how it plays out, i guess. thanks all for responses and discussion.
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Post by jam on Jan 15, 2015 14:26:27 GMT
One hour of sword a week makes it sound like it is a bit of an add-on for them. Paying $26 for that one hour is high imo, but something is better than nothing. What is the ryu being taught?
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 15, 2015 14:29:06 GMT
erm, it says Iaijutsu and Kenjutsu.
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Post by jam on Jan 15, 2015 14:38:17 GMT
That's a great start, both very good and complimentary arts. Makes it sound like an out-and-out sword dojo, odd that there is only one hour per week though if that is the case. The sensei insisting on a japanese iaito also reinforces a sense of legitimacy.
There should be a school/ryu name mentioned, maybe muso jikiden eishin ryu, toyama ryu or something else ending in ryu. Aikido schools also have iai and kenjutsu in their curriculum.
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 15, 2015 15:17:06 GMT
yeah it's aikido & kempo & jujutsu.
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Post by jam on Jan 15, 2015 17:21:48 GMT
yeah it's aikido & kempo & jujutsu. Cool. Your dojo membership probably extends to other sessions where sword is not taught, which is why it seems expensive. I would ask for a reduction in the cost if you only want to attend the kenjutsu/iai. I would also ask what lineage of iaijutsu you are being taught. If it is a popular lineage you may be able to augment your class with some "homework". Your sensei may teach you koryu mae, for example, well, a ZNKR video of the seitei version of mae is on youtube. You can learn the basic shapes of the kata at home, and your time in the dojo may be enhanced for so doing. In any case, good luck.
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Post by wazikan on Jan 15, 2015 19:45:04 GMT
the rates at my school went up at the begining of the year. i wasnt happy because it was a decent jump. but i look at the level of instruction i get. the instructor really pushes me to improve in every class. so the art is great, but if the teacher just knows the material but cant convey it. i would find another location if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 2:23:09 GMT
I practice Shinkendo/Toyama Ryu. In my particular school. my sensei allows steel or aluminum iaito. However, this is after you get the basics down with a boken. Advanced students generally use shinken. Personally, I feel that learning the basics with a boken is better since you don't need to worry about noto/sheathing as much while working on basic footwork and memorizing kata. Despite the edge of the blade not being sharp, it is still very possible to still injure your hand with the point of an iaito while practicing noto. -K Studied a koryu style for a short while, same sword usage as what you describe. Prices tend to be higher as classes are smaller, many pick their students rather than let everyone in, it's more about continuing the tradition than making money.
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 24, 2015 4:38:03 GMT
actually i've completely changed my mind about the alloy iai. just keep it very close at hand and be able to easily clear most furniture out of your chill out space then you can practice sword whenenver you want without even thinking too hard.
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Post by mindfulloffire on Feb 18, 2015 18:19:34 GMT
uh oh. looks like my dojo is fuk.asa ryu which according to the internet is not a thing.
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Post by Krelian on Feb 18, 2015 21:39:19 GMT
That's unfortunate. You're in Eastern Pennsylvania correct? Sakura Budokan of the Kokusai Nippon Budo Kai is in Kingston. www.SakuraBudokan.com/ It'd probably be a bit of a drive but they teach very high-quality legitimate Japanese martial arts. It'd be well worth it if you would be able to figure out transportation.
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