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Post by ride57 on Jan 13, 2015 7:00:07 GMT
I was sort of curious, does anybody have swords that they can cut the tatami mat all the way through on the draw? And of course swords that you can't?
I have 2, my wiwingti kokat and the Oniryu I can cut the mat on the draw. These blades are ~24" any of my longer swords(28" +) I can't do it on the draw, but can otherwise.
I havent tried in like a year and a half at least (due to my knee which wore down to bone on bone and I finally got it replaced ) and I am just getting ready again, practicing draws etc.
Doug
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Post by Google on Jan 13, 2015 10:30:03 GMT
If the sword can cut well in other ways, the problem is the technique. Batto is tricky.
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Post by Shirayuki on Jan 13, 2015 16:28:13 GMT
Technique is most important. But obviously, Ko-Katana are kind of meant to give you an edge over your opponent in batto. You can draw them quicker and due to the tighter arc your initial swing is more natural to the arc your shoulder and elbow make. Hope that explains it >.<. Drawing and cutting with a longer sword is possible though; just practice practice practice.
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Post by wazikan on Jan 13, 2015 18:15:53 GMT
i can draw and cut with my oniyuri and my custom bugei. the bugei isnt as easy becuase its just a heavier blade. theres no bo-hi and they are thick cutters. this is one of the reasons why im going to get another sword in the coming months. i want to get a kaneie blade and have a longer tsuka made for it. but with a bo-hi i can practice my forms with it and get that nice swish song when im on point.
i think the largest problem people have is not pushing the blade out of the saya. the after it clears its all body movements. pulling back your shoulders, and collapsing the fingers starting at the pinky to start the blade swing.
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Post by justin520 on Jan 13, 2015 22:06:16 GMT
Anything 28 inches or under I can perform successful batto with regularly, but I prefer ko katana cause I can be stupid fast about it.
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Post by ride57 on Jan 14, 2015 6:17:22 GMT
Thanks. I was just curious. +1 on the practice and form though. I remember reading (I think it was on here) about some guy who said he cut his hand as the sword had cut through the saya. So I was thinking maybe thats what I was doing, starting to angle the sword ( my 28 in swords, not the ko kats) before I had it completely out of the saya and the drag of the sword rubbing that last couple of inches of saya was throwing me off.
Doug
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Post by wazikan on Jan 14, 2015 7:17:05 GMT
If you dont clear the saya before you rotate into the cut you can tear through the saya and cut up your left hand. One of the reasons for same skin, ratan, ect around the end of the saya is to protect your hand. Some people pull the katana out. The problem is that ypur body cannot get the blade out and cut effectively. When you push the blade out and rotate your hips the lenght doesnt really matter.
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Post by Google on Jan 14, 2015 13:06:22 GMT
You must clear the koiguchi (saya mouth) before starting the cut. With longer you must use "saya biki" and "saya banare"- pulling the saya back (while pushing the sword forward), and then "removing" it off the tip.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 15:26:29 GMT
Thanks. I was just curious. +1 on the practice and form though. I remember reading (I think it was on here) about some guy who said he cut his hand as the sword had cut through the saya. So I was thinking maybe thats what I was doing, starting to angle the sword ( my 28 in swords, not the ko kats) before I had it completely out of the saya and the drag of the sword rubbing that last couple of inches of saya was throwing me off. Doug You see that a lot with people trying to go too fast too soon, there was one guy showing off by trying to cut grapes or whatever and I guess he got himself pretty good. What is happening is they are changing the orientation of the blade in some manner (left hand, right hand, hip rotation, whatever) before it is clear of the saya. It's really easy to have that problem if you switch back and forth between different swords since they're all going to have their own nuances. It shouldn't be necessary to drag the tip, there's a couple different ways to sort that out, either more saya movement with the left hand (if you need to you can "squish" it further into the belt to give yourself that extra fraction of an inch), a little more extension with the right, using the hip turn to give yourself more room, a wider step, you just change the parameters of what you've got to get the room you need to work. Obviously depending on where you are at with the knee some things are easier said then done - you definitely get my sympathies, trying to restore confidence after something like that goes is not easy.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 14, 2015 16:49:42 GMT
Thanks. I was just curious. +1 on the practice and form though. I remember reading (I think it was on here) about some guy who said he cut his hand as the sword had cut through the saya. So I was thinking maybe thats what I was doing, starting to angle the sword ( my 28 in swords, not the ko kats) before I had it completely out of the saya and the drag of the sword rubbing that last couple of inches of saya was throwing me off. Doug That was actually on the SBG Facebook page - he was incredibly lucky not to have done worse damage to his hand, and has publicly said (on FB) how he should not have attempted the cut, especially since the koiguchi on his saya was missing and/or cracked. Draw cutting takes lots of practice, especially with a sword with longer nagasa, which means that the person has to use more saya biki in order for the technique to work properly. I don't have a KO-katana, but have successfully done draw cuts on single and double roll tatami omote with a few of my katana ranging from 27" to 29" nagasa, but like I said, saya biki is of great importance.
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Post by ride57 on Jan 15, 2015 1:18:42 GMT
Thanks all, I just went outside And did draws starting very slow.(Raptor shinogi zukuri 28" nagasa) I can clear the saya with about 1 1/2 to 2 inches to spare when I sayabiki with my hand at my hip. My hand stops at the obi and I don't have to pull it back any farther. I then started drawing over and over going a little quicker until I felt resistance on the draw and looked down and found that I am starting my rotation while the last couple inches of the sword was still in the saya. Like this: As you can see I am just starting my rotation to early. I am NOT doing it like this: I am going to guess that this is how that guy cut his hand. Now that you guys have helped me figure this out I know that I have something that I need to concentrate on. (besides everything else)
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Post by wazikan on Jan 15, 2015 5:36:54 GMT
It happends. Just slow down a few for a few thousand cuts. It will mar the blade and grind out the saya
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Post by wazikan on Jan 15, 2015 6:09:38 GMT
It always sucks when someone points out something i have been doing for years. It takes time and repatition to fix it. Im happy to know a place that i can improve at, but bummed on how long it takes to fix
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Post by Shirayuki on Jan 15, 2015 13:47:52 GMT
I kind of like whip it after clearing the koiguchi. Draw it out entirely then snap/whip it into a clean cutting arc. Start slow so you get accustomed to drawing it out completely before making the cut. Also, while drawing and using saya biki your edge alignment might be off so you'll have to adjust for this almost whilst your making the cut already. So start slow until you get it right every time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 13:59:28 GMT
Awesome. Most of the time, the left hand isn't going back as far as it needs to, but you never know for sure. Good idea to entirely clear the saya. If you really know your sword you can start rocking it before it's entirely clear and have the kissaki just barely clear but if you don't take your time, it can quickly become a game of Russian Roulette where you can get away with it right up until that one time you can't.
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Post by justin520 on Jan 15, 2015 15:10:01 GMT
Also during sayabiki it really helps if you're pressing the spine along the inside of the saya to prevent any edge contact inside the saya.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 2:36:28 GMT
Fitting the sword to the user is important, much in the same way that you get fitted up for the right size bicycle, golf clubs or rifle when you purchase them from a reputable store.
Most important thing is to have the correct sword length in relation to your height and the length of your arms so that when you perform the draw with correct form, the blade clears the scabbard easily, and the tip doesn't hit the floor with techniques where the blade points downward. There are a few techniques for determining the correct sword length and these vary from school to school.
You can adapt your technique when handling a longer sword but it's not as fluid, and it increases the chances of slicing through your hand if you make a mistake.
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