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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 13, 2015 2:51:48 GMT
This is something I've been pondering for some time and I finally decided to begin a thread about it. You see it in movies with some frequency, the archer character will engage in short range shooting until the enemy gets too close and they begin using their bow as a staff; this is what got me thinking about this subject and I was originally going to create this thread solely about it, but then I remembered reading in a novel (or perhaps it was somewhere else, my memory seems to fail me on exactly where it came from) about using an unstrung bow as a staff, since that's essentially what it is and figured I'd best include it, as well.
So, what exactly is the veracity of using a strung bow as an impact weapon and how effective do you think it would be? What about an unstrung bow?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 13, 2015 4:01:52 GMT
Why not, as an emergency weapon? But a bow is flexible and designed to be as light as reasonably possible (so that the limbs move quickly), so it isn't the best of impact weapons.
There is a type of Japanese spearhead ("yumi yari") designed to fit over the tip of a bow limb, which would make the bow a much more effective emergency weapon.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 13, 2015 4:20:46 GMT
Wax wood is also flexible, but that doesn't stop it from making a pretty decent staff, which is why I figured using an unstrung bow as an impact weapon was the more plausible of the two. I don't claim to know more than the absolute basics of bows or archery, so I couldn't help but think that the tension the bow is under while strung might, ahem, impact its effectiveness as a staff, but I'm very likely wrong.
Thanks for the heads up on the yumi yari, though; I punched it into Google Images and found an antique version posted on a forum some years back, as well as a fragment of a manga page of all things featuring one in action.
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Post by ineffableone on Jan 13, 2015 5:07:31 GMT
For anything less than last ditch life or death, your better planing or figuring out something better to fight with. There is a reason many archers wore swords or carried axes or other melee style weapons.
A good bow is precision weapon that you don't want to use as an impact weapon. You smack those bow limbs around your going to be damaging the wood fibers in the limbs, and next draw your likely to snap the limb you used as a club or find one side stiffer or other issues.
Please don't use a bow as a staff. Unless it is an immediate life or death react now, then preserve your bow to use it as a bow.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 13, 2015 5:21:58 GMT
I'd thought as much, but I wanted to see if it was just one more thing Hollywood got wrong about weapons; turns out they were (sorta) right, albeit probably for the wrong reasons. If memory serves, the biggest offender of this is Legolas from at least one of the movies and I seem to recall him only doing it when he doesn't have time to pull out one of his knives, so it kinda fits the last ditch thing.
Anyway, thanks for the answers, guys.
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Post by Afoo on Jan 13, 2015 5:47:37 GMT
I could certainly use my recurve bow as a melee weapon...but that's only because the riser is solid metal and the stabilizers are so heavy :P However, the ancient version of this style of bow (wood risers and composite wood - likely similar to a Mongolian or Eastern European recurve) would not work at all. Too light to do any damage whatsoever. Best bet is to use the riser to block sword blows and then stab with the arrows.
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Post by bigpete on Jan 13, 2015 7:36:28 GMT
I think a traditionally made English longbow wouldn't be too bad, relatively thick limbs with horn nocks that I reckon could give a pretty nasty jab. Actually the bow used in Arrow wouldn't be too bad,with the brass knuckles on the front of the riser,but really you would want to look after your bow as bet as possible
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Post by Afoo on Jan 15, 2015 3:54:04 GMT
An additional problem is that, if the bow is strung and becomes damaged in the course of the melee, it could fail catastrophically, potentially injuring you and, at the very least, permanently robbing you of any long-range combat ability
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Post by Draven on Jan 15, 2015 22:54:19 GMT
I could see a jab to the face with the tips or hit someone in the face with the grip area but not much more - regarding Legolas in Jackson's LOTR I'm pretty sure he more pushes someone aside as he's holding the bow, rather than using the bow as a melee weapon - though he does frequently use arrows as melee weapons. A crossbow is a different story - stiff steel prods and a hefty lump of wood for butt-stroking, I'd imagine it would do quite well!
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Post by Cosmoline on Jun 24, 2015 22:23:51 GMT
Boy howdy. Then as now, a good bow is NOT something you want to treat poorly. In addition to the hefty price tags good bows have always carried, they are not set up to be impact weapons. Finest yew, mountain grown and specially harvested and imported at great expense, carefully selected, dried, cut, and fashioned for consistent performance at enormous poundage. That's a far cry from some local ash or oak cut into a quarterstaff by the local carpenter. These days a yew warbow will run you $1,000 minimum, while a good hardwood quaterstaff is under a hundred bucks. The math was similar back then. Not only where they not used as contact weapons, they weren't carried strung. They would have been stowed, protected from elements and not brought out until ready for battle.
In reality, archers have other weapons for close combat. An English bowman would have picked up clubs and spears or simply drawn sword and buckler. In late medieval illustrations they're often shown being quite heavily armed and armored. I think folks sometimes mix up hunting scenes, where the bowmen are wearing light clothes and no sidearms, with combat scenes. And I think folks get mixed up between a cheap, low-poundage stickbow for hunting (that might be carried all day strung) and the tactical weapon known as a warbow.
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Post by Derzis on Mar 21, 2016 18:08:46 GMT
It doesn't make sense to use a bow as a staff in a fight - unless it is your last resort (lost your sword, knife, arrows etc). I wouldn't use even a selfbow to knock heads, but this is me.
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Post by highlander200268 on May 27, 2016 0:22:11 GMT
It works for the green arrow lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 5:54:17 GMT
It reminds me of my time learning Krabi Krabong. As you may, or may not, know, we learn a plethora of weapons, and specialize in one. These include the Swords[Daab Song Mue(2 Swords), Krabi(1 Sword), Krabi & Lo(1 Sword+Shield)], Krabong(Staff), Mai Sok San(Thai Tonfa), Ngau(Bladed Staff), etc etc. These include relatively less known Hammer, Axe & Bow Techniques. Guaranteed that I prefer throwing knives than shooting a bow, Thai believe in that a weapon should always be diverse, at Long, Medium & Short Ranges, although limitations exist. Bow is generally qualified as a long and medium range weapon, obviously. However, there were actually 2 bows with an archer at a given time. Presenting the short bow: Made of BRONZE, and scarcely functional as a proper bow. Mostly used for ranking and festivities. But soldiers(archers, duh) had a similar bow with them, for protection at shorter ranges. These were accompanied with only 3-4 metal arrows with wicked points but very thin diameters. They were thus suited to the purose of block, find opening and stab or shoot(the little bow had a very hard yet flexible rattan or other fabric/material of the like), before collecting the precious arrow again. They even had smaller Daab, mostly daggers or knives made from refitting broken swords etc. A much more modern look at the weapon: BTW, about the staff as bow, you may find this interesting.......... s74.photobucket.com/user/wolfsirebella/media/bsk.jpg.html
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Scott
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Post by Scott on May 28, 2016 9:26:05 GMT
The English warbows I've seen are fairly substantial bits of wood that could be used as a staff if need be. I'm not sure they could be used to shoot afterwards though, especially if they were used to block a blade. The closest historical example I can think of is the Pontic archers fighting Sulla's legionaries in 86bc. They didn't use their bows, they tried stabbing with bundles of arrows. It didn't end well...
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Post by highlander200268 on May 28, 2016 16:07:27 GMT
the issue is for a traditional bow if you twist the limbs on impact you just rendered your bow useless so i would say it is a fair bet that if you do use it for defense your bow is done for
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