Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 16:53:53 GMT
Had someone basically call me a liar in a pm because I sold something to someone who confirmed wanting to buy it before them. 9 years and hundreds of swords sold here, on UBC, MyArmory, SFI, Sword Forum... and no one has ever questioned my integrity before. I've worked very hard in the sword community to thought of as honest and trustworthy... I've had people use me as a middle man, where one would send me money and another would send me a sword, and I would send the money to the seller and the sword to the buyer... members have done this because they didn't know one another... but they did know and trust me. I've had members send me swords worth well over 1k in value to review... without a single worry that their sword was in good hands. I've had over seas forum members send me money so I could buy something and ship it to them. I can't count how many trades and sales and whatnot I have done over the forums... ...and this is the first time someone has ever questioned my integrity. The FIRST time. And for what? Because someone else was faster in buying something they wanted? I know this should not bother me... but it does. I'm not a wealthy man... and I never will be. I've resigned myself to that. Possessions are just stuff... they can be lost, destroyed, taken away. In the end all anyone really has in this life is their honor... their integrity... their word. That means EVERYTHING to me. I have been honored to have known and dealt with so many people on these forums... made many friends, met many of the people here in person. In all the sales and trades I have made here I've never had one person be unsatisfied or unhappy... and THAT means something to me. I'm pissed off. I should not be... but I am. Grrrrr.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jan 8, 2015 17:20:14 GMT
Well, Sean, have you tried just not being a liar? Seems like whoever it was just had their knickers in a twist and used you to vent.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 17:31:41 GMT
Yeah... I'm pretty taken aback by this guy. I have NO idea where the *&^% he is coming from... and I don't know why it bothers me, I've never even heard of the dude before. Blergh.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jan 8, 2015 17:36:43 GMT
someones just pissed he was too slow...
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Post by redrab on Jan 8, 2015 17:41:14 GMT
So now you go public with this? wow. Ok, I totally question you on this one? Of course I would. This was my response to you in the thread that you were advertising. I also followed through on the thread that I pm'd you. Not sure how much more clear I need to be? And I was the first person that responded to you.
'hello,
ill buy the butterfly swords from you if they are in good shape and youll send them to Calgary, AB, Canada, T2E 0L9
let me know.'
You responded in kind that you would have to charge me more for shipping. Which I responded to, still at the point of buying them from you. Over 12 hours later you pm me to tell me someone was ahead of me? How so? By 4 minutes...but we were already at the shipping stage in the transaction?
Im sorry if you are annoyed. But so am I.
No biggie. Its a done deal with someone else. Obviously we had a mis-communication. Although again, I said I would buy them.
Now you go public to what? To validate your sale and speak poorly of me and my communication with you?
Its over and done with. You made that clear to me in your pm. But now how am I supposed to respond when you go public with it and we are both upset at each other? I simply could have left you to complain about me on here but that wouldn't be right either. All in all, a horrible transaction with you on my end and I am sure you are not happy either.
But you could have left it at that. End of the day, when I say I'll buy something from anyone, that means that I will and if I am ahead of others then that interaction should be pursued first before moving on. Some people do things differently. This happened in this case and again, its a done deal. No worries.
I won't say anything more and as far as I'm concerned this matter is concluded.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 17:54:39 GMT
I did not use your name... so I never "went public" in regards to who you are... only my feelings on what had happened. I did not and would not have outed you... because I feel that is classless. However, you have just outed yourself, and I am glad... because you seem so sure that your in the right... and my explaining the situation did nothing for you... so maybe the public can help you understand how you have made an issue out of nothing and burned a bridge that didn't need to be burned for no reason... but worst of all... how you insulted a man's honor for no good reason as well.
As I tried to explain to you... you were NOT the first to contact me. You posted publicly in the thread... and sent me a pm. Another forum member sent me a pm but did not post publicly in the thread. His pm was 5 minutes ahead of your pm. BOTH of your pm's said you wanted to buy the item, but both of your pm's had contingent questions. The other buyer had a question about the condition of the weapon... and you had a question about the condition of the weapon AND wanted to know if I would ship to Canada. I responded to BOTH pm's, telling both of you the condition of the weapon, and you that more money would be needed to ship to Canada.
AGAIN, the other buyer replied before you, saying the condition was acceptable and the sale a go. Since he was the first to send me a pm, and the first to confirm the conditions of the sale, he gets the item. I wrote you in the morning to tell you as much. Then you told me you didn't 'Buy It' and that we had a deal and on any other forum it would have been a sale and I was wrong. You not only called me a liar... for no reason... but then said I did business in bad faith.. and that I was in the wrong. I have sold HUNDREDS of swords on this and many other forums... I have sold multiple firearms and accessories on forums dedicated to that... I worked in the auto sales industry for almost 10 years... ...and I have never ONCE had my integrity questioned. So, I never used your name in this thread... you could have gone alone the rest of your life without your name ever being attached to this publicly... I had another member ask me for your name in private and I told him I would not give out your name, as that was classless. However, since you have decided to make yourself known I submit to you that you, sir, are in the wrong... and if you have any honor at all you owe me an apology for being a 1st class jerk. I don't expect you will manage it... but ball is in your court.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jan 8, 2015 18:04:05 GMT
I agree...in my experience as a Maker and Seller its very common for multiple people to PM about a sword for sale and ask all sorts of questions and what if's, and shipping options ext. The only fair way to go about it is for the first person who has the money on hand ready to pay with no further discussion needed to receive the item. 5 people can't buy the same sword. Someone beat you to the punch this time, as MANY of us forum members have experienced in the past. Life goes on, and it doesn't mean the seller is shady or a liar. You should see someones inbox an hour after they post an ATRIM or an Odinblade for sale...
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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No matter where you go, there you are.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 18:11:44 GMT
You should see someones inbox an hour after they post an ATRIM or an Odinblade for sale... Your not wrong about that... when I post an Atrim or Odin for sale, its typically posted on at least 4 forums... and i have to juggle posts from 3-6 people per forum and tell 20 people they didn't get it. It's madness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 18:49:12 GMT
Obviously this guy has no idea who you are, Sean, and what kind of guy you are...
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LiamBoyle
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Fechtmeister the Clueless of H.A.S.C.
Posts: 478
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Grrr...
Jan 8, 2015 18:54:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by LiamBoyle on Jan 8, 2015 18:54:45 GMT
Hell Sean, I would a higher value on your integrity than I put on my own. BTW, should I get that DSA two handed Norman anytime and decide it's not for me I would happily give you right of first refusal.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jan 8, 2015 19:06:20 GMT
I've had only great dealings with Sean. So nothing of this following concerns you mate. But I'd like to point out that as an international buyer getting to know postage cost if crucial before you can make a purchase. I've gotten quotes from 40-250$'s for shipping a single sword. That is why getting to know the postage before committing is important. 150$ sword with 250$ shipping is obviously not a good deal... During last year I've noticed that on 2 occasions item that I was asking about and purchasing was sold to an US buyer who came after me. Of course I understand this is more easier to the seller but quite irritating to me as I was already prepared to buy the item and had money set aside for it. Neither of those sellers even informed me that the item got sold to another person... Of course I understand choosing the one who pays first. Personally I go for whoever asks about the item first. Of course that can lead to unfortunate situation where in the end "buyer" does not buy it. I had an item where the first in line kept asking questions/pics and after 2 weeks of deal negotiating stopped replying when he should have paid the item... Fortunately the second in line still wanted the item after all that time. Funniest missed sale I had was on one nihonto in pretty rough condition but it was a killer deal. I think there were 6 of us who wanted to buy that within 30-40 minutes. I think I was number 4 and I replied about 20-30 minutes after the ad was posted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 19:16:00 GMT
Anyone who's been around for a while has seen a drama bomb or three when problems come up, so people are going to be very touchy about making sure they aren't lumped in with the bad. Even with a bunch of somewhat anonymous members, it's still a rather small community and word gets around on both sides of the transactions. Probably best practice in general not to write anything you wouldn't want to see printed out and framed. The internet is forever.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 19:44:07 GMT
I've had only great dealings with Sean. So nothing of this following concerns you mate. :) But I'd like to point out that as an international buyer getting to know postage cost if crucial before you can make a purchase. I've gotten quotes from 40-250$'s for shipping a single sword. That is why getting to know the postage before committing is important. 150$ sword with 250$ shipping is obviously not a good deal... During last year I've noticed that on 2 occasions item that I was asking about and purchasing was sold to an US buyer who came after me. Of course I understand this is more easier to the seller but quite irritating to me as I was already prepared to buy the item and had money set aside for it. Neither of those sellers even informed me that the item got sold to another person... Of course I understand choosing the one who pays first. Personally I go for whoever asks about the item first. Of course that can lead to unfortunate situation where in the end "buyer" does not buy it. I had an item where the first in line kept asking questions/pics and after 2 weeks of deal negotiating stopped replying when he should have paid the item... Fortunately the second in line still wanted the item after all that time. Funniest missed sale I had was on one nihonto in pretty rough condition but it was a killer deal. I think there were 6 of us who wanted to buy that within 30-40 minutes. I think I was number 4 and I replied about 20-30 minutes after the ad was posted. I have no problem shipping international... I've done it many times for my own sales... and I don't know how many hundreds of times when I was working as the international shipper for Wiwingti Sword Supply. I also worked at the post office and as a Shipping/Receiving manager for a few years... so I can estimate costs international pretty quick. With my listings, I always list them with a price that includes shipping in the connected 48 states, but will ship just about anywhere. I just figure out what it will cost to ship, and deduct what it WOULD have cost to ship the sword to the furthest part of the 48 states and charge the buyer the difference. Easy as pie. It sucks that you were front of the line and got skipped over because a guy didn't want to ship international. I think if people are unwilling to ship international they should specify that in their post. I always go with the first PM I get... and then down the line. If someone posts in the thread I might not even know it until I go into the thread to adjust a sale for sold items. First PM is what matters.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 8, 2015 19:48:48 GMT
Anyone who's been around for a while has seen a drama bomb or three when problems come up, so people are going to be very touchy about making sure they aren't lumped in with the bad. Even with a bunch of somewhat anonymous members, it's still a rather small community and word gets around on both sides of the transactions. Probably best practice in general not to write anything you wouldn't want to see printed out and framed. The internet is forever. I live my life by that rule... never say anything about someone you would not say to their face... never DO anything you are afriad or ashamed to cop to if it was public knowledge. That said... private message is private message... I would NEVER have said the name (handle) of the guy in question here in public, because our interaction was in private. I do, however, reserve the right to express my feelings and frustrations with me fellow forum members... but his name would never have entered the mix. He decided to out himself here in this thread. His choice. The only exception to this is if someone outright rips me off. I'll out such a person in a split second, as the forum at large needs to know about such activity so they don't get burned. Lucky for me, in these 9 years and hundreds of transactions... I only ever got screwed twice. The people in the sword community are, by and large, pretty damn good people.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jan 8, 2015 20:35:02 GMT
ive had dealings with Sean myself and hes always been an upstanding individual to me. I've purchased multiple swords from him and shipping was always prompt and quick, and ive even sent some of my own wares to him to evaluate and hes never burned me yet.
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Grrr...
Jan 8, 2015 21:44:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by john570 on Jan 8, 2015 21:44:14 GMT
I can not comment on the deal since I don't know what was in the PM's. But odds are it was just a case of either misunderstanding or miscommunication. But redrab no deal is rock solid till cash has been sent. All I can comment on is my interactions with Sean, which have all been good. Other then him helping make the sword community what it is today. Personally he has helped me out in more then one way. From giving me great deals on multiple swords and allowing me to make payments to him. To helping me out when I got burned on deals from other people, allowing me to use his paypal account, being a middle man, helping me obtain hard to get swords, the list goes on and on. And we still haven't meet in person yet, which I do hope to change. He even has a sword I just bought off him for a large chunk of cash as we speak and I plan on doing more business with him soon. Sean is totally a stand up guy. He is a man of honor and when his word is given it is good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 2:30:00 GMT
I've been first on items before on this forum where the buyers explained that they would prefer to sell to someone in their own country, I respect that, it's their choice, and it's easier to carry out the transaction for them. Sometimes it takes a while to check international shipping and I've missed out, it's never personal, it's just circumstances, no need for anyone to ever personalise this sort of thing, we're all friends here and respect each other, that's what a community is supposed to be about.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 9, 2015 3:00:10 GMT
Isn't this where the voice of the "play nice or I will icinerate your planet" moderator comes in and locks and throws a blanket over the thread for being unwaltdisneylike...
Sean you're gettin incensed by a pantless rookie.
And pantless rookie: read some more friggen threads and realize this kind of complaint goes on forever. The seller controls his sale and is under no obligation to lay it out for public consideration. Most people I know, Sean for certain, exercise a first come first served ethic.
( And blowin your cover to answer a hypothetical was priceless, PROBIEEEEEE.... )
GO ye all n play nice...
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 9, 2015 3:22:04 GMT
Even though I've never had any "deals" with Sean, I have seen countless times here and other forums where he's been nothing but honest and considerate of the community at large. Reminder for the rookie: play nice or others won't play with you.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jan 9, 2015 4:04:02 GMT
With Sean, what you see is what you get. Okay so maybe he isn't a cuddly teddybear but dammit he's honest and has butloads of integrity and also happens to be a super nice guy. Sean, you know this, we know this, you know that we know...well, you know.
I know it didn't happen this way in this instance but I've actually told someone they were first only to have to reverse that after looking more closely into the details. It can get confusing when the pm's start piling up and you're in multiple conversations at the same time but sometimes mistakes do happen as well.
It's also good advice to buy and sell and trade with those you know and trust and I know I'd trust Sean with any sale for any item, anytime. Vent away brother, we know you're legit and you don't have to prove it to anyone.
-Josh
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