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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Aug 11, 2015 4:08:22 GMT
Nice set of fittings there Messenger. And thanks - I usually prefer the plain iron type fittings, but something about them clicked w/ me, so I decided to keep them as they were. (I like the silver theme the katana has) I can't wait for it to be forged! ^_^ EDIT: While I'm on the subject of blade fittings and such, has anyone ever seen a sageo wrap like the one here?: I really like the look of it, and although I asked him how to do it and he replied, I doubt I could pull it off. XD
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Aug 11, 2015 4:59:15 GMT
St-Nihonto is still going to get an order. I am trying something a bit different with him. I will ship him two ray skins which measure 27 by 13 inches (after I sand some of the deep navy color off the nodes). Partially it is to rough up the nodes to make sure the Ito stays in place. He is willing to do a full wrap with the skins I send. I really like it when a vendor steps out of their comfort zone.
Just keep in mind that these are tanned skins and could be quite a bit thicker than air dried samegawa and therefore could require them to remove more wood from the tsuka to accommodate it. Removing too much wood can lead to a weakened core, especially with the generally poor quality wood these forges use, and despite the added hardness of the surface of the skin. Just throwin' it out there to think about.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Aug 11, 2015 5:09:31 GMT
St-Nihonto is still going to get an order. I am trying something a bit different with him. I will ship him two ray skins which measure 27 by 13 inches (after I sand some of the deep navy color off the nodes). Partially it is to rough up the nodes to make sure the Ito stays in place. He is willing to do a full wrap with the skins I send. I really like it when a vendor steps out of their comfort zone.
Just keep in mind that these are tanned skins and could be quite a bit thicker than air dried samegawa and therefore could require them to remove more wood from the tsuka to accommodate it. Removing too much wood can lead to a weakened core, especially with the generally poor quality wood these forges use, and despite the added hardness of the surface of the skin. Just throwin' it out there to think about. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of a full samegawa wrap also to help keep the tsuka more structurally sound? A full samegawa wrap affixed to the wooden tsuka core acts to compress and help keep the tsuka's structural integrity? (Also, isn't a cracked tsuka not a make or break kinda thing? With a fully wrapped samegawa and a well fit nakago, a small crack in the tsuka is relatively minor, isn't it? Even genuine nihonto's tsuka can crack, and were known to have. I mean, the way the tsuka is constructed and the way it rides on the bamboo pegs (or peg, depending on the number) leaves little to no room for the tsuka to literally shatter or fall apart mid-swing, right?) Don't get me wrong, the tsuka's durability and integrity ARE and ALWAYS WILL BE key safety aspects that should be carefully considered, and I wouldn't want my tsuka cracking all the time, but I've heard it's usually a manageable issue.
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 11, 2015 5:24:02 GMT
St-Nihonto is still going to get an order. I am trying something a bit different with him. I will ship him two ray skins which measure 27 by 13 inches (after I sand some of the deep navy color off the nodes). Partially it is to rough up the nodes to make sure the Ito stays in place. He is willing to do a full wrap with the skins I send. I really like it when a vendor steps out of their comfort zone.
From my experience sanding samegawa makes it smoother, since the nodes are hooked and sanding removes the barbs. Not sure if these tanned samegawa have already been sanded. A full wrap helps when it's proper samegawa. The tanned stuff you are going to use has been, well.. tanned. Its been worked and is soft when dry I believe. It won't compress and harden the way samegawa does after its been wetted and shaped to the tsuka. At least I think that's the case
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Aug 11, 2015 5:26:50 GMT
The tanned samegawa does not act the same as the dried skins as far as compression is concerned. They can be thinned and soaked to compress a bit but you need to know what you're doing and do it carefully to get the same benefit. Sorry, but I seriously doubt the forge will do anything more than wrap it around the core and glue it. Some people wind up making their tsuka weaker in an attempt to make it stronger. When dealing with inferior or questionable materials and or workmanship, it's usually a better idea to go with more wood and less samegawa. On most of the swords of this quality level, I would suggest nice panels over a full wrap. Historical and traditional applications and methods don't always translate well to low budget production swords.
I suppose using a katana with a cracked core might not be an issue with some people. All I can say for sure is that I wouldn't want my tsuka to be cracked. That is completely your call in the end. I'm sure the katana could survive to some extent with nearly any part cracked or damaged in some way but that is neither here nor there.
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addertooth
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Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
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Post by addertooth on Aug 11, 2015 5:41:22 GMT
Thinning the leather is on the roadmap as well, before sending. I have already thought about how much the wood will have to be shaved to use thicker leather and want to avoid that. The sanding of the nodes will be to rough them up with a coarser grit and remove the dark navy blue coating, so the white knobs show against a dark background. I think that effect will be eye catching.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Aug 11, 2015 16:17:07 GMT
Yeah - mine's going to be high 500s, possibly just over $600 all said and done - I decided to keep the fuchi, kashira and tsuba as they were because, like adder, they seemed un-factory~ish and relatively unique - plus I have a weakness for Maru tsuba. ^_^ He definitely has access to some better quality fuchi kashira than most of the cast alloy crap on most china-based seller's blades, I think: Here's hoping that both your St-Nihonto katana come out well! I would never pay that much for an eBay sword. For $600, you can do a lot better, IMO.
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addertooth
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Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
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Post by addertooth on Aug 11, 2015 18:41:07 GMT
Mikeeman, I am always looking for a bargain. Do you have links to sub $600 katana swords which you feel are much better? I have seen some pretty great close-out deals of late, but, at regular price what jewels have you found? I have seen some nice mono-steel (maru) blades close to that range, but nothing which has a more complex blade structure (sanmai, honsanmai, shihozume, Gyaku Kobuse). It seems these fancier (really only of visual value) blade structures seem to really drive up the price of the sword from other sources.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Aug 11, 2015 19:16:10 GMT
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Aug 11, 2015 19:20:08 GMT
Yeah - mine's going to be high 500s, possibly just over $600 all said and done - I decided to keep the fuchi, kashira and tsuba as they were because, like adder, they seemed un-factory~ish and relatively unique - plus I have a weakness for Maru tsuba. ^_^ He definitely has access to some better quality fuchi kashira than most of the cast alloy crap on most china-based seller's blades, I think: Here's hoping that both your St-Nihonto katana come out well! I would never pay that much for an eBay sword. For $600, you can do a lot better, IMO. I've had some good luck in buying blades on ebay in the past - I picked up a 1095 DH chukuto once that was a great price. I'm aware of the stigma and the risks that certain ebay sellers have, and I do appreciate your opinions and concerns on them. Still, this is from ST-Nihonto/Even-Sword, a slightly more reputable seller than Ryan Sword, and I've had the time to talk in-depth with Mr. Sheng, and I'm quite certain in myself. Nevertheless, I do understand your position and respect your opinion - to each their own, I suppose. (I'll post an in-depth review of it once I receive it - it might just be a good buy.)
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Aug 11, 2015 19:27:16 GMT
I've actually considered the Shinto katana in the past but decided against it - mainly because it has some of the Hanwei "tells" - ie, white frosted hamon, cotten ito, slightly axe-shaped tsuka, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great product at a great price, but I just with that they had a no-hi version available - then I might have gone for it.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Aug 11, 2015 19:40:07 GMT
Mikeeman, I am always looking for a bargain. Do you have links to sub $600 katana swords which you feel are much better? I have seen some pretty great close-out deals of late, but, at regular price what jewels have you found? I have seen some nice mono-steel (maru) blades close to that range, but nothing which has a more complex blade structure (sanmai, honsanmai, shihozume, Gyaku Kobuse). It seems these fancier (really only of visual value) blade structures seem to really drive up the price of the sword from other sources. There are a lot of good brands at a lot of good prices. It would take a long time to list everything that I thought was a good deal. Here's a good deal on a "factory second" Shinto, if you're interested: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH1001xxx&name=Blow+Out+-+Shinto+KatanaThat being said, I have yet to see an eBay seller with their sanmai/honsanmai/whatever lamination they claim ACTUALLY put out a blade that was laminated. What I've seen, time and time again, is that they will tell you it's laminated, charge you a few hundred more, then send you a blade that is purely folded. There is a guy in the review section (and elsewhere, of course) that has bought several "laminated" blades and cut them in half to show nothing but folded steel. DiggsfossilsnKnives. Or something like that. I dunno. I just call him Diggs.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Aug 11, 2015 20:19:34 GMT
I've seen many fakes as well. I think the only real one I've seen was done really poorly with uneven lamination on both sides. Oddly enough, I asked for sanmai first on one of my swords then changed to t10 and was quoted the same. My price wasn't that high considering it was a long blade and they had to make a saya custom just to fit it.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Aug 11, 2015 20:45:10 GMT
I've seen many fakes as well. I think the only real one I've seen was done really poorly with uneven lamination on both sides. Oddly enough, I asked for sanmai first on one of my swords then changed to t10 and was quoted the same. My price wasn't that high considering it was a long blade and they had to make a saya custom just to fit it. This tells me one of two things: 1. It's definitely not laminated because lamination takes extra time to do and, thus, money. 2. Their "T10" is overpriced. Another thing I'm seeing, as with every single other conversation about eBay kats, is that it's fittings, fittings, fittings. Messenger, you said you were paying $600 just to get some unique fittings. To me, that's bananas. Here's what I would do, instead: Go buy this: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2376&name=Hanwei+Practical+Light+KatanaThen, spend maybe $100 or so on the fittings you like. So now that you are $300 in with fittings you want and a known, quality blade, spend that other $300 to have someone do a PROPER tsuka, full wrap, and itomaki. Now you have what you want and a blade that is from a known good source. Not some "iffy" eBay blade that may, or probably not, be the steel you wanted in the first place. Plus, if something is wrong with the blade when you first receive it, you can send it back to KoA and get a new on. And on top of that, you have the fittings that came with it that you can sell in the classifieds.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Aug 11, 2015 21:06:28 GMT
I've actually considered the Shinto katana in the past but decided against it - mainly because it has some of the Hanwei "tells" - ie, white frosted hamon, cotten ito, slightly axe-shaped tsuka, etc. The Shinto tsuka is one of the Hanwei models that actually has a slimmer and more tapered profile, unlike say a Raptor tsuka. They also use folded paper hishigami and do a better overall job of wrapping imo. The fittings are far higher quality than any of the typical ebay offerings. The hamon etching is also easily removed with a little polishing paste and can be re-etched for a much nicer looking effect but the base hamon is well executed. I don't know what's going on with the fuchi pictured above but it looks slightly mangled on the rim and almost seems like the bottom portion was sloppily colored in with a marker, perhaps it's just the lighting. I also doubt they are made of steel, likely just the same metal and quality as all the rest. No doubt, the Shinto isn't for everyone but it really doesn't have the typical axe handle as far as I've seen and I would list the many other qualities it possesses but that is just going further off topic. In my opinion, the blades are what hold any real value in the ebay sword world and some are just consistently better looking than others but the rest of the sword (maybe excluding Huawei saya) are worth nickels and dimes and should be considered free bonus/disposable stuff. If these ebayers ever figure out how to make decent koshirae to go with their blades instead of just slapping together random crap, the bigger boys in the game will be seriously threatened. I've been extremely impressed with some of the ebay blades I've purchased lately and have gotten good feedback from sword smith friends who agree that the level of quality has definitely been raised. Good stuff
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Post by Kiyoshi on Aug 11, 2015 22:29:23 GMT
I've seen many fakes as well. I think the only real one I've seen was done really poorly with uneven lamination on both sides. Oddly enough, I asked for sanmai first on one of my swords then changed to t10 and was quoted the same. My price wasn't that high considering it was a long blade and they had to make a saya custom just to fit it. This tells me one of two things: 1. It's definitely not laminated because lamination takes extra time to do and, thus, money. 2. Their "T10" is overpriced. Another thing I'm seeing, as with every single other conversation about eBay kats, is that it's fittings, fittings, fittings. Messenger, you said you were paying $600 just to get some unique fittings. To me, that's bananas. Here's what I would do, instead: Go buy this: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2376&name=Hanwei+Practical+Light+KatanaThen, spend maybe $100 or so on the fittings you like. So now that you are $300 in with fittings you want and a known, quality blade, spend that other $300 to have someone do a PROPER tsuka, full wrap, and itomaki. Now you have what you want and a blade that is from a known good source. Not some "iffy" eBay blade that may, or probably not, be the steel you wanted in the first place. Plus, if something is wrong with the blade when you first receive it, you can send it back to KoA and get a new on. And on top of that, you have the fittings that came with it that you can sell in the classifieds. $100 is dirt cheap. I would have spent that on fuchi and kashira alone. Double that because it's a daisho, then add $200 per tsuba because the stuff I like isn't very common. St-nihonto had them on hand and they won't cost me anymore than their other iron fittings. Not to mention hanwei blades aren't that great. For their price, pretty good. But they don't have geometry that I want or the hamon I want. I'm paying $850 to get a t10 daisho that I will like. Is that so bad? I don't think so. So what if their sanmai is fake most of the time, I'm not buying a sanmai blade. Their swords are okay and if you know what to ask for, are worth the dollars you pay. I have a hanwei but I never really use it except for the occasional time I look at something and say "can I cut this? I wonder..." It is a durable and well made blade that holds an edge, but I want certain things hanwei can't deliver.
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Post by Anankai on Aug 12, 2015 3:00:49 GMT
Mikeeman, I am always looking for a bargain. Do you have links to sub $600 katana swords which you feel are much better? I have seen some pretty great close-out deals of late, but, at regular price what jewels have you found? I have seen some nice mono-steel (maru) blades close to that range, but nothing which has a more complex blade structure (sanmai, honsanmai, shihozume, Gyaku Kobuse). It seems these fancier (really only of visual value) blade structures seem to really drive up the price of the sword from other sources. How about this bargain? www.dynastyforge.com/swords/japanese_arms/bushi_class_forgefolded/on_sale_bushi_ff_tristeel_okatana_in_musashi/I'd go with that any time over any St-Nihonto offering.
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addertooth
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Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
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Post by addertooth on Aug 12, 2015 3:48:32 GMT
Well, the final verdict is in on the Shihozume Ryan Sword. I did UV laser photography of the blade. The reason for the UV photography is to overcome the polish that is put on the blade which can hide/obscure the Damascus layers. The photos are of two sets which are on the opposite side of the blade. The reason why I did this was "some" blades have the hard core steel meander, so one side has Damascus to the edge, but the other side shows unfolded steel at the edge. In the two sets of photos, the Damascus runs all the way to the edge. The sets are on the opposite side of the blade in the same place, so meandering is not the issue. These shots are just a sampling, the whole edge of the blade has Damascus which runs to the edge.
I sent him an E-Bay message to let him know the sword had accidently been sent with a maru Damascus blade. I asked him to send a replacement shihozume blade. The pictures:
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Aug 12, 2015 4:57:08 GMT
Do you have any pics without the uv enhancement? I'm diggin' the uv faux-buster tech!
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addertooth
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Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
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Post by addertooth on Aug 12, 2015 4:58:40 GMT
I can take a couple, you would be amazed how well a good polish hides the layers under normal light.
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