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Post by randomnobody on Dec 21, 2014 2:10:59 GMT
I think you might have misunderstood me. When I said nothing under $2k, I was referring specifically to Chinese production forge tamahagane blades. Anything less than that probably isn't even tamahagane, for starters, and is likely not very well made even if it is.
You can absolutely get very good swords for much less. After ten or so years collecting and playing with swords and knives, my favorite katana is still my old Hanwei Practical Katana, which I bought almost 11 years ago for $200. I've largely moved out of the production market, as little of it scratches my personal itches, but it's come a very long way since my last buy.
If you can shell out £1,000, which currently is just over $1,560 US, you've got a lot of really nice swords to choose from. In watching a couple of antiques on eBay that run around $2-2.5k US if you can scrape together another few hundred Pound. Otherwise, I'd definitely see what Bugei or Kaneie has in your price range. Hanwei, too, but I'm honestly not as "wowed" by their upper-end as I am by Kaneie. Granted, the differences in price and selection...
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Post by Anankai on Dec 21, 2014 4:48:30 GMT
Four thousand Euro, ouch! Pretty, though. Yep that is my concern , why not just buy a nice genuine 1600s katana? Ok, let's go with a nice genuine 1600's katana then... Edo period(1603-1867) Here we have a Edo period, year 1690 nihonto, price 1 100 000 yens=£5 900www.aoijapan.com/katana-kiku-mon-oumi-kami-minamoto-hisamichigenroku-sannen-nigatsu-kichijitsuHere is a Edo period, Kanei era(1624-1643) nihonto, price 1 600 000 yens=£8 600www.aoijapan.com/katana-oumi-kami-hojoji-tachibana-masahiro-1st-generationThere's this Edo period, Kanbun era(1661-1672) nihonto, price 1 750 000 yens=£9 400www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-koku-ju-oumi-daijyo-fujiwara-tadahiroAlso this Edo period, Kanei era year 1642 nihonto, price 1 800 000 yens=£9 650www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-koku-ju-oumi-daijyo-fujiwara-tadahirokanei-19-nen-2-gatsu-kichijitsuNow this Edo period, Kanbun era(1661-1672) nihonto, price 3 700 000 yens=£19 800www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-koku-kawachi-daijo-fujiwara-masahiro-1st38th-nbthk-juyo-paperEdo period, Kanei to Kanbun era nihonto, price 4 200 000 yens=£22 500www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-koku-ju-oumi-daijo-fujiwara-tadahiro-2And this Edo period, Kanbun era nihonto, price 4 500 000 yens=£24 000www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-koku-kawachi-kami-fujiwara-masahiro-second-generation21st-nbthk-juyo-paperThese are authentic nihontos from Japan, not some fake Ebay low priced nihonto... But it's true that you can find a nihonto for £4000, but in a bit of a deteriorated condition, or in shirasaya: www.aoijapan.com/katana-shinano-kami-minamoto-nobuyoshi-first-generationwww.aoijapan.com/katana-bishu-osafune-kiyomitsueiroku-6-nen-2-gatsu-hiwww.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-kuni-jyu-oumi-daijyo-fujiwara-tadahirowww.aoijapan.com/katanaminamoto-no-nobukuni-heisiro-yoshimasa-saku
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Post by Krelian on Dec 21, 2014 8:05:51 GMT
@ lethalcurves : swords are like cars - some people would prefer a 2014 Maseratti, some others a 1930 Bentley. Which is the best/real car? Imho, both are. But for different reasons, and different purposes. Aurélien hit the nail on the head with this analogy (I was gong to make a very similar analogy actually). You really have to realize that authentic Nihonto and Chinese production blades are two completely separate things. Either can be excellent or terrible but generally speaking Nihonto will automatically cost far far more. For excellent quality Chinese-made production blades our fellow members are completely spot-on by recommending Kaneie (and Bugei/high-end Hanwei are quite nice too). I know it's already been said but I'll go ahead and say it again for good measure: there is absolutely nothing special about tamahagane. It just so happens that in Japan tamahagane (and oroshigane) is the ONLY material that a papered Nihonto is allowed to be made of. Primarily because the Japanese artisans are not really smithing weapons. They're practicing a traditional craft. Tamahagane was old Japan's very creative way of turning poor quality iron sand into a useable (but in NO way magical) steel. They made lemons into lemonade so to speak...
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Dec 21, 2014 8:12:42 GMT
Where in UK do you live? In my opinion it might be best that you got a chance to see some real swords with experienced folks, they could also steer you in the right direction on your future purchase. I would advice trying to aim for the triple your budget, as 3000£'s will give you a lot of options vs. 1000£'s. Of course there are stuff to be had for 1000£'s too. Although you already had noticed that lower budget items usually have their own flaws. That doesn't mean they should be totally overlooked though, as you can find some good budget deals too. If you are willing to settle for a wakizashi instead of katana you will have lot more options in lower price ranges. For example here is a Takada wakizashi for 700£'s: www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20938 I recently sold a wakizashi that was in decent-good condition to a fellow Finnish collector for c.320£'s. You just have to know what to look for and where to buy to get the good deals. That's why getting into some UK sword club would be great as experienced collectors could help you out a lot. There are plenty of good dealers in UK too, and you could maybe visit some of them to see various swords? Japanese sword collecting is really not an easy hobby to get in due to prices being quite high, as well as information needed. Of course if you have money you can just buy stuff. Also swords in general are not that good investments unless you buy at the top level or score a killer deal, and even there fluctuation will affect prices very much. So it's safer to assume that you won't be getting 100% of your investment back. Of course in the ideal situation you will, or you could even make a profit. There are so many things that affect on prices that it's better not to expect too much. Buy what you like and like what you buy is a good general guide. As for production swords I think the Musashi Daito you will be getting will be fairly good sword. As it has 15+ inch tsuka, I would shorten it by c.5 inches and it would be lot better. I see most production swords in below 500$ range as good swords vs. money spent. When they start to be over that line I don't see them as good buys anymore because they are expensive for me. I'd rather save for antique than spend 500+$ for a production sword.
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 21, 2014 13:38:51 GMT
Where in UK do you live? In my opinion it might be best that you got a chance to see some real swords with experienced folks, they could also steer you in the right direction on your future purchase. I would advice trying to aim for the triple your budget, as 3000£'s will give you a lot of options vs. 1000£'s. Of course there are stuff to be had for 1000£'s too. Although you already had noticed that lower budget items usually have their own flaws. That doesn't mean they should be totally overlooked though, as you can find some good budget deals too. If you are willing to settle for a wakizashi instead of katana you will have lot more options in lower price ranges. For example here is a Takada wakizashi for 700£'s: www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20938 I recently sold a wakizashi that was in decent-good condition to a fellow Finnish collector for c.320£'s. You just have to know what to look for and where to buy to get the good deals. That's why getting into some UK sword club would be great as experienced collectors could help you out a lot. There are plenty of good dealers in UK too, and you could maybe visit some of them to see various swords? Japanese sword collecting is really not an easy hobby to get in due to prices being quite high, as well as information needed. Of course if you have money you can just buy stuff. Also swords in general are not that good investments unless you buy at the top level or score a killer deal, and even there fluctuation will affect prices very much. So it's safer to assume that you won't be getting 100% of your investment back. Of course in the ideal situation you will, or you could even make a profit. There are so many things that affect on prices that it's better not to expect too much. Buy what you like and like what you buy is a good general guide. As for production swords I think the Musashi Daito you will be getting will be fairly good sword. As it has 15+ inch tsuka, I would shorten it by c.5 inches and it would be lot better. I see most production swords in below 500$ range as good swords vs. money spent. When they start to be over that line I don't see them as good buys anymore because they are expensive for me. I'd rather save for antique than spend 500+$ for a production sword. Im in Liverpool buddy. I would love to hold a real Edo period katana and older but when i look on google not much turns up like on auction houses and what not. well yes i actually would not mind a wakizashi but eventually i would still want a katana. yes i would love to buy a three grand sword but im the worst money saver in the world and i have a crap job and children , so would take me litteraly three years to save that. well if i did buy an old katana i would not be looking at making money out of it at all i just like the historical value of them really.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 21, 2014 14:07:28 GMT
My last antique buy was a naginata-naoshi wakizashi, cost me $1800 US plus shipping, but the fellow I bought it from let me turn it into six payments through a layaway. I'd have never saved that kind of money otherwise. If you find something you like that's maybe just a little out of reach, try contacting the seller to see if they'd take a down payment to hold the item until you save some more. Most will. I was checking out a shop in Australia (isn't the internet grand?) last night and checked their katana section (I normally only shop wakizashi, myself, more variety and they take up less space) and noticed they have a few koto pieces from $4-5k, AUD. That's not unreasonable, but is certainly more than I can spit out. Here's a nice looking Kanbun kat in shirasaya from another place for $3,990 (I assume that's Australian dollars, which is about $3250 US, or £2,080. Even if it's listing USD, that's still only £2,550. genuine-antique-swords.com/swords/katana/ka0037-Yoshiyuki/description.htmlNice stuff is out there and can be had if one tries, but heck I'm a lowly wage slave so even without "real bills" and kids I'm missing a lot of the good deals.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Dec 21, 2014 16:02:45 GMT
Well you are in luck Lethalcurves, as Northern Token Society (http://www.northerntokensociety.org.uk/) is gathering in your neighbouring Manchester. You can hit an email to them and that will be hopefully a start to something great in your study of Japanese swords. :)
I know from experience that getting into the meetings and seeing & handling swords is important. Getting to learn from more experienced collectors is very important. They will surely help you on your quest for the first sword too. You might even find your first purchase from your local folks. Sometimes great deals come up within collector groups and they are not seen by the public.
Many of us are facing financial limitations, so I know what you are saying. Saving up for a sword takes a long time for me too. Good thing about it is that you really can't make too hasty buying decisions and you'll think through your purchases. I hope my last post wasn't putting you off, as I find it great that people have interest towards Japanese swords. Therefore I decided to point to your locals instead of plain old book recommendations. :) As I think the Token Society members will give you lot more help than I can give.
As for the 3k vs. 1k for example, I know how painful that is... It's unfortunate that my own taste is far beyond my own budget, so I can't get the stuff I really want. At least I can admire them until maybe someday I have the money for those items. :)
I think it's a good thing that you have already narrowed down your search mostly to katana. As it will be helpful while you think about potential purchases.
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 21, 2014 16:21:26 GMT
Well you are in luck Lethalcurves, as Northern Token Society (http://www.northerntokensociety.org.uk/) is gathering in your neighbouring Manchester. You can hit an email to them and that will be hopefully a start to something great in your study of Japanese swords. I know from experience that getting into the meetings and seeing & handling swords is important. Getting to learn from more experienced collectors is very important. They will surely help you on your quest for the first sword too. You might even find your first purchase from your local folks. Sometimes great deals come up within collector groups and they are not seen by the public. Many of us are facing financial limitations, so I know what you are saying. Saving up for a sword takes a long time for me too. Good thing about it is that you really can't make too hasty buying decisions and you'll think through your purchases. I hope my last post wasn't putting you off, as I find it great that people have interest towards Japanese swords. Therefore I decided to point to your locals instead of plain old book recommendations. As I think the Token Society members will give you lot more help than I can give. As for the 3k vs. 1k for example, I know how painful that is... It's unfortunate that my own taste is far beyond my own budget, so I can't get the stuff I really want. At least I can admire them until maybe someday I have the money for those items. I think it's a good thing that you have already narrowed down your search mostly to katana. As it will be helpful while you think about potential purchases. Hello Jussi No!No! Not of putting at all , im one of those people that i want it right now and for the right price. Well im considering selling my retro video game collection to fund this as it is i a storage unit and i reckong i would get at least 3 grand as there is some pretty rare stuff in there and i can sit and admire a Katana or wakizashi. well im not dead set on a katana , i will eventually want one but there is a Japanese ebay seller whom i heard was legit , selling some really nice wakizashi blades for anout £400/£500 and they look really nice and i would prefer blade only as i can then buy some nice bintage fittings and make my own Saya. Well yes i have recently heard about the token society so i will give that a whirl as depending on when it is i could save a few more pounds. but yes rent , life and choldren take up nearly all my money so im left with about £100.00 a month not a lot i know. but i am one of those people whom does not live beyond his means so i know when i can afford something and when i can not , as money is not everything in life and like you i spend countless hours drooling over peoples very rare and amazing Katanas. thank you and everybody else for the advise and have a safe and merry christmas
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slav
Member
Senior Forumite
Katsujin No Ken
Posts: 4,457
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Post by slav on Dec 22, 2014 5:36:28 GMT
Hey Anankai, nice triceps. I look forward to looking at them hundreds of times over the next few months. I'm sure everyone else does too!!
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Post by MEversbergII on Dec 23, 2014 4:29:21 GMT
Related: Back when I was more active, c 2010 or so, Musashi made a line of DH swords that were actually really low price; which line was that? Are they still available / great value? I really haven't kept up with the sword world since about 2011, due to busy busy.
M.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Dec 23, 2014 4:31:56 GMT
Related: Back when I was more active, c 2010 or so, Musashi made a line of DH swords that were actually really low price; which line was that? Are they still available / great value? I really haven't kept up with the sword world since about 2011, due to busy busy. M. I believe you're referring to the Bamboo Warrior katana. A very good starter dh katana for the money ($80 at the time) -Josh
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Dec 23, 2014 4:35:37 GMT
I think you are referring to the Shirakawa line. DH 1060 blades for around $100.
EDIT: Hahaha, Josh got there first.
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