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Post by Ralliz on Oct 12, 2014 0:03:06 GMT
Very simply put, I know nothing about Chinese weapons, but I saw Twin broadswords and was fascinated (double broadswords, double dao?unsure of proper name) They're often seen in wushu (Chinese competition in martial arts) and I think they're awesome. I was just wondering if they could make viable weapons. And with that, does the wiggle it makes (when swung around) a problem, or is it no big deal? and lastly, where do I find a good pair for use? thanks!
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Mikeeman
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Small Business Operator
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Post by Mikeeman on Oct 12, 2014 0:23:16 GMT
Butterfly swords?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 12, 2014 0:37:14 GMT
Where to begin? First off, forget Wushu. It has no bearing on how to actually perform Chinese martial arts, let alone how to use a weapon. As it exists today, Wushu is a performance routine akin to gymnastics in the West. It's very flashy, very intensive, and it takes a lot of practice to complete a simple Wushu routine as gracefully as you see some of the competitors doing, for which I respect the practitioners immensely, but for all that, it's not martial arts (in that, it's not a method of combat). Second, the shuandao, or dual dao, are indeed a viable weapon and, if you look, you can find antique examples that are a couple hundred years old. As with any two sword method, they're very difficult to learn and the actual benefits of doing so are debatable, but if you put the time and effort into it, I imagine it would be quite rewarding. Thirdly, the "wiggle" is a product of the type of steel that Wushu swords are made from; it's commonly called Wushu steel, as that's about the only place I know of that uses it, and it is extremely flexible, unlike a real sword. They're virtually paper thin and generally made of medium quality steel at best; at least, from what I've seen available on the net. From the way I had it explained to me, Wushu swords are made that way so that when a person performs a proper thrust or cut, the blade will "snap", in this sense meaning it will flex significantly and emit a high ring, whereas if performed incorrectly, the blade won't flex. They're training and exhibition tools, not actual weapons and it'd be best not to think of them as such. Lastly, as for finding a pair of quality shuangdao, I'm sorry to say I don't know of any forges that offer a set; the closest I can think of is this set from Wing Lam Enterprises. I've never done business with them, so I can't speak to their quality, but they're the only ones that come to mind. |
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Post by Ralliz on Oct 12, 2014 0:42:56 GMT
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Post by Ralliz on Oct 12, 2014 0:59:44 GMT
I read your Post, but I got lost (sorry). So basically the ones that wiggle are ment for wushu, but they have real ones that don't wiggle, correct?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 12, 2014 1:16:43 GMT
Correct. A sword should have some flex, but not much compared to a Wushu steel blade and they generally shouldn't bend under their own weight when held horizontally. Generally, what you want to pay attention to is the steel of the sword; if it says it's made from Wushu steel, consider it a practice weapon only, similar to a bokken or a blunted feder. If it lists it as being made from high carbon steel, it's likely to be a functional sword, but don't quote me on that.
Unfortunately, there's not much more I can tell you on the subject; shuangdao aren't in high demand, so finding a quality set without paying through the nose is likely to be difficult.
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Post by Ralliz on Oct 12, 2014 1:39:59 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 12, 2014 2:02:36 GMT
Yes. Some are intended purely as martial arts toys, others for display. But some are definitely fighting weapons. The fighting ones are often short, rather than as long as full-sized swords. Apart from twin dao, there are also twin jian swords, twin jian/bian maces, twin hook swords, and more.
IMO, the main benefit from twin rather than single is a better chance when facing a spear, without having something as awkward to carry around as a spear or a shield. In traditional twin weapon forms, one sees lots of anti-spear technique (but the opposing weapon in traditional forms is most often a spear, so that's expected). Excessive length makes them less useful against spears, which I think contributes to the typical fighting twin weapon being shortish.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 12, 2014 2:12:12 GMT
I can't say; I've never come across that site before, so I have no idea whether or not they're reputable. As I said, there's just no real demand for functional shuangdao, so your only hope may be to see about getting them custom made. You could give Enlightenment Swords a try; they're the only place I personally know of that will make custom Chinese swords and, if memory serves, one of our members had a good experience with them (though I could be wrong). |
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Post by LiamPBoyle on Oct 12, 2014 16:57:48 GMT
There used to be a forum member, Swordsage, who practices CMA. He is currently working with a couple sword manufacturers and suppliers. If you look him up through his YouTube channel he could probably point you in the right direction. As for the link you posted, "combat steel" vs "spring steel" would be the correct option for functional blades I am not familiar with that vendor either through reputation or experience so I cannot make a guess as to the quality of the product. To start with I would pick up a pair of these and start practicing: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... ning+Sword You can find some saber materials online for the 13 Yang form but I do not know where to find anything specifically for twin dao. |
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 12, 2014 20:18:55 GMT
Sadly Swordsage stopped frequenting SBG much and concentrates on his youtube channel now. I do love watching his videos though and he and Skall has put out a few colab videos.
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Post by LiamPBoyle on Oct 12, 2014 21:21:49 GMT
He's actually been doing some behind the scenes SBG stuff with the store. I would recommended using his affiliate link for any SBG store purchases you might have in mind to help him out. He has the link in the description of his most recent video.
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 13, 2014 2:28:09 GMT
Ahh, good to know.  |
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Post by Taiwandeutscher on Oct 13, 2014 6:47:31 GMT
www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s076_full.htmlThat would be the real deal; antiques are hard to get by and for sure not cheap! No, the other pair is for training only, not for real use, no cutting or realistic contact with other weaponry is advised. There are several good forges in China (Longquan has good ones, too), and others like named above can do it. Will be neither easy nor cheap, you need to do some homework, so that you know what to order.
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Post by Suho on Oct 15, 2014 19:33:57 GMT
One thing I notice about the pair from the Martial Arts Store is that the guards are not designed to sit adjacent to each other in the scabbard, as the antique pair you linked. That is how I have usually seen them (one side flat to sit next to its mate). I would imagine it might not matter in terms of using two swords, but they would probably need separate scabbards.
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Post by karishamarsh on Mar 4, 2015 0:40:51 GMT
Yes. Some are intended purely as martial arts toys, others for display. But some are definitely fighting weapons. The fighting ones are often short, rather than as long as full-sized swords. Apart from twin dao, there are also twin jian swords, twin jian/bian maces, twin hook swords, and more. IMO, the main benefit from twin rather than single is a better chance when facing a spear, without having something as awkward to carry around as a spear or a shield. In traditional twin weapon forms, one sees lots of anti-spear technique (but the opposing weapon in traditional forms is most often a spear, so that's expected). Excessive length makes them less useful against spears, which I think contributes to the typical fighting twin weapon being shortish. That's not what I got when I saw Jet Li using the bendy ones in Shaolin Temple were he cut down a small tree in a second with one of those. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 4, 2015 0:50:32 GMT
With a non-bendy one, he would have cut down a stone pillar.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 6, 2015 17:55:24 GMT
That's not what I got when I saw Jet Li using the bendy ones in Shaolin Temple were he cut down a small tree in a second with one of those. Just a movie and not a very accurate one at that.. |
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