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Post by johnwalter on Jul 12, 2016 18:58:24 GMT
You said even th. Three.That was enough for me. A lot of people new to the production sword world think too much about steel type,trust me with most of these Chinese forges steel type means very little,if you even get what you think you are getting.I've tested Musashi 1045 on bamboo with no problems.I've seen three T10 DH blades from eBay vendors bend with my little finger.Inconsistent heat treat and tempering isn't uncommon,tho some companies have better consistency than others,but I'm sure you are aware of that.Hanbon has a lot of happy customers tho,I know people with their swords who are very happy with them,and others not quite as happy.
Anyway good luck with your purchase .It will be functional and I hear he is pretty consistent with following directions on orders. Cut safely.
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Post by mtngunr on Jul 12, 2016 19:56:22 GMT
Imitation ray skin, no wrap, would guess zinc fittings, and not even a hint of a tsuba.....again, I am after a higher quality package, and it seems i am getting it. If i knew of a higher carbon steel blade(heck, even a 1045 listed blade), with brass or iron fittings, wrapped ray skin, wood saya with horn appointments, and for less money than i am paying, i would be all over it like white on Chinese rice......but i see nothing comparable for the money, and it seems neither do you. Now, if the blade just turns out good with good spring temper, i will be happy, and biggest worry being back too soft and edge too hard.....even a solid spring temper to edge would hold up to impact..... I will give it my normal duty blade bashing and see how it does....and post results which is purpose of forum and entire site, for which i am grateful. PS- aside from nobody offering anything comparable as for components/appointments at anywhere less than several times this knife cost, the man has a good rep for at least trying to keep customers happy, so, if an actual turkey, i at least stand a chance of some manner of replacement/alternate. All the downsides are valid, but at least this guy has a solid track record and quite a few more happy than unhappy customers, here, other forums, and ebay, and not just some mystery zinc/plastic junk vendor you never hear from again after they take your money. You do indeed get what you pay for.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 12, 2016 20:31:09 GMT
And have a good day sir
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Post by mtngunr on Jul 13, 2016 3:02:08 GMT
Trying to keep this real time, I had told Yao of my planned testing protocol, and he seemed to think blade ok with it, but just not to cut "very very hard things", and assured him only what i would call simple utility chores attempted, small limbs, small tree....no metal cans, steel rod, bricks, concrete, etc, just flex enough to make sure not a soft blade, chop normal stuff such as limbs/small tree, and he reaffirmed it should be fine with that...he has zero idea that this buying/using experience is being posted, as i do not wish to possibly skew results over what any other buyer might reasonably expect to receive (not that i think that is possible given him likely dependent on his own blade supplier, short of recommending a different style make/material, which he did not do even though presented a golden opportunity).
Now, as admitted before, am no manner of swordsmanship student, only knives, nor any manner of cutting mat, bamboo, water bottles for sport sort of guy, whether formal Japanese or Americanized in the back yard. But what i seem to run across again and again is a worry of wrecking a more expensive sword with a bad hit, and "beginners swords" more forgiving. It is why i bought the Raptor as it seemed more able to be an actual weapon rather than sport cutter for the expert, only. And why i am giving Yao's goods a whirl.
If his blade is up to a grunt going out back and using it as a combat utility blade (and it seeming doing so would make a more expensive blade owner cringe in fear of damage), and it comes equipped with other appointments normally reserved for $400 and up knives (and coincidentally, it seems most makers only offer those nicer appointments if you also buy only their higher zoot blades, and nothing otherwise available even on a cutter such as the Raptor, go figure), then it will be very hard to find fault, seeing as how just not much out there like it, with generally forced options being either very cheap or very expensive. (Exception to that rule being perhaps the uber-stout Cold Steel O-Warrior tanto of a bit more traditional make/look than the Raptor).
This all said as an outsider looking in, and also as someone who internet wide sees far too many broad sweeping generalities posted on the net based on invalid numbers of samples, no matter what the product. Someone like me simply wonders suchlike that if Yao a businessman, and there being many blade makers in his locality, and him knowing bad blades bad for business, why he would not eventually find a local guy who made a decent and consistant product.....kind of a common sense thought, that one. It also causes me to wonder about automatic assumption that ONLY the blades from a large brand or two are worth anything, and that anything from anybody else is always and forevermore inconsistant junk, as if the big names the only ones capable of learning from the marketplace.
....and now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Post by mtngunr on Jul 15, 2016 19:28:50 GMT
nt
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Post by nddave on Jul 17, 2016 20:51:13 GMT
There's a reason the big names are big names in regards to the market. Point being they have been tried, tested and have held a reputation of quality for years from various enthusiasts and JSA practitioners. If the big names weren't consistent in their quality or performance over the years, frankly put they wouldn't be big names. There have been many names and vendors on the market that have risen and fallen over the years. Namely due to inconsistency of their swords' quality and fraudulent claims being called out by both purchasers and communities like this one. One good example with katana would be Cheness, who for a time were highly regarded as quality entry level swords with a focus on durability. After a while though they lost their high spot due to inconsistent quality control as well as new manufacturers in the same price range offering a better sword.
Seems to me like you feel your are getting more due to customization options or email promises from Ebay vendors. Promises based on little guy sob stories and the ability to produce quality blades for a fraction of standard market pricing. If you want to play into such pitches, go for it it's your money and your investment. Though it is very rude to argue such matters with experienced buyers who have been around the block enough to have handled or owned numerous swords from the big names to the little guys from Ebay and everything inbetween or above.
Point being if your going to ask questions and do research dont bite the hand offering answers or information simply because it's not what you want to hear or choose to believe. Nobody here who validly gives such information has some agenda against Ebay vendors or some fanboy favoratism towards the big names. Fact is a lot of them have personal experience in such areas and Ebay and the hundreds of Chinese vendors selling there have been an on going debate and topic point for years now among the community.
If you really think there is an Ebay bias then perhaps you should look back amongst the numerous threads on Ebay vendors and see why a bias has been built on certain ones or on Ebay in general. Take it from me, we're all looking for the best swords for the best prices and if we find something worthwhile we will praise it before we'd ever sweep it under the rug to protect the big names' reputation.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jul 17, 2016 21:24:03 GMT
mtngunr, I do hope your order turns out well, but from my experience Yao excels at pleasant emails and fails at making swords. All of the swords I've bought from Hanbon had some of the least impressive blades and poorest tsuka assembly of any swords I own. I don't mean to sound negative, but the tanto you linked to looks worse than the 'cheap' tantos John Walter linked to on KOA. Trust me, at the price you're spending the blade you get from Yao likely won't meet expectations, especially if you're used to the performance standard of a Hanwei raptor. If possible, I'd consider a Hanwei tanto or a Bugei if you want something that truly is "quality" as I just fear you may end up disappointed with Hanbon (others here disagree with me and have had good luck with Yao, but me...three orders, numerous faults each as briefly described in this thread: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/45748/sword-forge-buying-experience-results ). It isn't so much a matter of "big vs small" in this case as it is a matter of getting what you pay for.
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Post by nddave on Jul 17, 2016 23:32:48 GMT
See this is the problem I have always had with Ebay vendors, their swords really dont look any different than what is offered by Musashi, Ryumon, Ten Ryu or Munetoshi. Nor do they seem to perform any better or as many reviews have shown, actually worse. When you factor in cost and shipping (especially for NA buyers) these Ebay direct swords really start to loose their appeal, aside from maybe the allure of customization options regarding colors and koshirea. Still for $300 on average you're paying for what these more established budget vendors offer for literary half the price. Sure you dont get the customization options but you do get the ease of mind that comes from consistent quality control and buyer guarantee from the various third party vendors or the manufacturers themselves. Something that to me as a buyer and collector holds more appeal than unconfirmed laminated blade forging or color koshirea customization options. Also I jumped back a page and looked at the Hanbon Tanto that got this recent discussion started. Yea it doesnt look any more fanciful or crafted than the Ryumon folded Tanto on KoA or even the Musashi John posted as recomendation. I see on all three, Rayskin pannels alloy koshirea synthetic ito lacquer saya low end high carbon blade with bo-hi Difference is price. $65-$75 shipped for the Ryumon or Musashi and $200 shipped for the Hanbon. Sure I guess there's value in 1095 over 1060 or 1065 and the option of horn kurigata and koigiri, but is it worthwhile on a 7"-12" bladed tanto? Here's the Ryumon to compare, www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=RY3046&name=Ryumon+Folded+Steel+Dragon+Tanto+-+Red+Saya
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Post by Kiyoshi on Jul 18, 2016 2:59:06 GMT
Don't forget that even if it is 1095)(which it probably isn't), it probably isn't heat treated well so it makes the steel type moot to begin with.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 3:33:14 GMT
Don't forget that even if it is 1095)(which it probably isn't), it probably isn't heat treated well so it makes the steel type moot to begin with. That's an important one I forgot and something that will literally make or break (pun intended) a sword no matter what steel grade is used. Hell it's been proven a properly heat treated 1045 blade will out perform and be more durable than a poorly heat treated 1060, 1070, 1095, 5160, T-10, L6 or any other meteorite infused super steel blade fancy hamon, DH and folds or not. Hell it's been proven even more that poorly heat treated and crafted Ebay flavor Laminated blades will perform worse and possibly be even more dangerous than any mono high carbon steel or even 420 Stainless Steel been properly heat treated! Yet people flock to these Ebay sites without question due to the hype of getting something of that caliber for a fraction of the market standard pricing! It's ridiculous. One thing holds true in the sword market when talking quality and conistency, "If it sounds too good to be true it is." I'd like to add, "You get what you pay for." Though as us more experienced buyers know, this isn't always the case and there are definitely scalpers and scammers (especially on Ebay) that will overprice or falsely advertise swords not worth jack squat for thousands of dollars (Looking at you super meteorite makers) using hype words and fake stats. That's why such a community as this is great for all buyers because the level of knowledge and experience is there to highlight the good and cross out the bad. If we truly were nothing but fanboys (and girls) of the big name manufacturers, our review indexes would have nothing but big name swords and our threads would consist of the same. Again what made those big names big names was consistency in performance and quality for reasonable prices over time. It would be equally wrong for us as a buyers guide to not recommend big names as it would to ignore any up and coming little name that was showing the same consistency in performance and quality.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Jul 18, 2016 4:52:29 GMT
The biggest draw for me was finding someone who can actually make a sword long enough for me. Not many people make 29-30 inch blades of good quality.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 4:59:48 GMT
The biggest draw for me was finding someone who can actually make a sword long enough for me. Not many people make 29-30 inch blades of good quality. Lol, in a twist I prefer a 25-26" blade which is actually more hard to find in the production market. I have Kris, Ronin and Bugei for options in those lengths. Luckly all three have great consistency and quality for the price point.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 18, 2016 10:56:56 GMT
Well guys I was gonna mention all of this,and more,but the op didn't seem interested in anything but his own opinion,so why bother I figured. For example,the Hanwei Practical tanto I posted a link to is a good base to build on and for the price he could have a tsuka made by a good craftsmen and wrapped and probably be around the same price as that one from Hanbon,but much better quality.But since he seems to want a tanto to act like a camp knife... And again,why bother.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 14:35:44 GMT
Well guys I was gonna mention all of this,and more,but the op didn't seem interested in anything but his own opinion,so why bother I figured. For example,the Hanwei Practical tanto I posted a link to is a good base to build on and for the price he could have a tsuka made by a good craftsmen and wrapped and probably be around the same price as that one from Hanbon,but much better quality.But since he seems to want a tanto to act like a camp knife... And again,why bother. Yea I figured as much but still wanted to add my two cents due to his attitude. Some people just want to hear what they want to hear.... Probably wont see they guy ever again and he's probably on FB or Ebay bashing "snobby uppity SBG"... lol. But if he's not and wants a campfire tanto why didn't he go for one of these? www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CR2907&name=Columbia+River+HissatsuI was going to link this too after his survivor man rant but thought he wanted something traditional due to his bashing of Hanwei and praise of the Hanbon.
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Post by mtngunr on Jul 18, 2016 14:39:02 GMT
Well guys I was gonna mention all of this,and more,but the op didn't seem interested in anything but his own opinion,so why bother I figured. For example,the Hanwei Practical tanto I posted a link to is a good base to build on and for the price he could have a tsuka made by a good craftsmen and wrapped and probably be around the same price as that one from Hanbon,but much better quality.But since he seems to want a tanto to act like a camp knife... And again,why bother. As for me, it is I who have the open mind in thinking this might even turn out to be good, while you continue to affirm I paid 4 times too much, without seeing mine and with testing very few others from same maker, and keep changing the post to push another brand....likewise the naysayers who are only doing typical internet media echo chamber and lack of direct experience of the brand, nothing but unwarranted and unproven assumptions as to lack of proper heat treat, fraudulent steel type in listing, etc......the discussion is HANBON, as far as I know. What I see is nothing substantive aside from "i paid more and mine is better snobism"......this knife is coming with horn fitted sheath and brass and copper fitted blade, and not ONE of you can point me towards a cheaper option similarly appointed, nor point me towards anything close in far more expensive knives.....would also point out higher tip velocity sword tests not especially transferable to a tanto length test as for edge and blade distorsion....all I see is plain ugly bashing... Now, what I have read from actual owners is general happiness, and a few turkeys.....anything else to back up all this bashing?.....any of you? As a philosophy professor once wisely told me, there are two types of opinions you can have....those being opinions you are entitled to, and those you are not. Any one of you prove the fraudulent steel branding. Any one of you prove the same blade suppliers as the $50-$70 blades.....personally I think it just as likely Hanwei outsources low end blades as anyone else...
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 15:17:32 GMT
Well guys I was gonna mention all of this,and more,but the op didn't seem interested in anything but his own opinion,so why bother I figured. For example,the Hanwei Practical tanto I posted a link to is a good base to build on and for the price he could have a tsuka made by a good craftsmen and wrapped and probably be around the same price as that one from Hanbon,but much better quality.But since he seems to want a tanto to act like a camp knife... And again,why bother. As for me, it is I who have the open mind in thinking this might even turn out to be good, while you continue to affirm I paid 4 times too much, without seeing mine and with testing very few others from same maker, and keep changing the post to push another brand....the discussion is HANBON, as far as I know. I've replied plenty to you on point revolving around the topic and subject of HANBON, so why do you keep picking on John treating him like he's some secret rep for Hanwei? Fact is as I have mentioned experience goes a long way here at SBG, so does photographed reviews. Now if you look at most Ebay katana reviews they're usually done by two types of people, 1) Experienced collectors or practitioners who understand what makes a production sword good and what makes one bad, especially in the inflated market of katana. 2) New enthusiasts who've bought into the hype marketing and overall bullsemprini ploys of Ebay vendors. I really feel for these guys because they really think they got something more than they have when it's very obvious from pics and their limited knowledge they don't. It's even more obvious when in defense they use the "confirmations" given to them by the vendor during sale of its quality and ect. Now there is a 3) but they dont come around often. They are actually the vendors themselves or paid reps that come onto SBG doing mock reviews for their Ebay sword brand. These usually devolve quicky from an obviously overgenerous review of the sword being reviewed, to a pure bashfest on other vendors and manufacturers, eventually with the rep revealling their guise. This and more is why SBG doesn't look favorably on Ebay in general. It has nothing to do with big names or fanboyism. It has nothing to do with some anti-agenda towards Chinese swordsmithing. It would be pretty self-destructive in regards to katana as 90% of production katana come from China, lol!! Again I have literally three detailed posts on topic about Hanbon and comparable options on the market directed at you. Why ignore them simply to jump back on John? Are you trying to prove something? Just attacking John because he's a big name supporter due to his personal experiences with Ebay and big names alike? Seriously how many swords have you bought from HANBON? How many swords have you bought from other Ebay vendors? How many production swords have you owned or handled from various manufacturers across the market? How many low, mid, high and nihonto grade swords have you personally handled or owned? Its the numbers behind every question I asked above that gives guys like John the credit they get here for their free contributions and sharing of experience and knowledge gained from such experiences. John has handled more katana than most here and due to his knowledge and experience on the subject matter we tend to show some respect when he makes suggestions and gives insight on a sword or brand.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 18, 2016 16:25:22 GMT
I have not bashed Hanbon at all that I recall.Simply said overpriced.I could have said more judging by your picture alone and you talking of your free upgrade to brass fittings,but I didn't.I simply said overpriced IMO. I have not changed the subject.YOU asked for comparable pieces at the same or better prices.I provided those.YOUR mind was closed to those options.I provided better options at still better prices with an option to make one even better.Your mind was closed sir.
Pushing another brand?I posted links to more than one brand.And I didn't push anything,I posted links to other options,which again,YOU asked for. Actually every statement I made was prompted by you. I am no big name fanboy,or any other type of fanboy for that matter.I've tested swords for several vendors and makers both big name and small name.I'm honest about every opinion and suggestion I give.Actually stepping away from some popular in some circles brands because my experiences were very different from most has brought me flack in some places. And sometimes with some makers\vendors handling just a few pieces is all it takes to judge general quality. I did not attack you sir,merely offered my opinion based on EXPERIENCE,what this forum is here for.You seem quick to judge and insult.I truly do hope you get a decent tanto,I'm sure it will be.At this point I'm sure its gonna be truly wonderful and a total steal of a deal at $200. Again,you have a great day sir.
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Post by szabla on Jul 18, 2016 17:05:40 GMT
It would be wholesome and beneficial for everybody not attack each other. Identification a opinion with a person is perception bias. "The only Universe which exists is my Universe. When I going to die the Universe will die with me." Sawaki Roshi.
Personally I would not buy japanese style katana from certain ebay vendors. It is my personal approtch to thing based on several purchases. If somebody asks my opinion let's say on antique "Polish Cavalry Szabla Katana Sword" sold by ebay vendor located in China I would share my opinion on subject and that's it. If somebody any ways wanna purchase it... Well let it be. I can't exchenge even one fart with anybody ( yah Sawaki) so only personal expierience matters. From my point of view what I see in some posts here is unbeneficial and unwholesome. Peace out.
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Post by nddave on Jul 18, 2016 17:29:12 GMT
It would be wholesome and beneficial for everybody not attack each other. Identification a opinion with a person is perception bias. "The only Universe which exists is my Universe. When I going to die the Universe will die with me." Sawaki Roshi. Personally I would not buy japanese style katana from certain ebay vendors. It is my personal approtch to thing based on several purchases. If somebody asks my opinion let's say on antique "Polish Cavalry Szabla Katana Sword" sold by ebay vendor located in China I would share my opinion on subject and that's it. If somebody any ways wanna purchase it... Well let it be. I can't exchenge even one fart with anybody ( yah Sawaki) so only personal expierience matters. From my point of view what I see in some posts here is unbeneficial and unwholesome. Peace out. What you say holds merit and yea its a waist of time debating with someone who doesn't want to take advice. That aside this is an open forum with just as many if not more guests and viewers as there are members and if anything these threads are more for them than it is us actually in the discussion. Our goal here at SBG is to find the best swords for buyers and share knowledge and experiences with such swords for potential buyers. If that knowledge and experience isn't wanted or believed by select members or viewers then that's fine, let them learn on their own or come to their own conclusions. Hopefully not at too much of a financial headache or physical harm if going against the standard experience of "been there done that" member sharing said experience. But for every one that chooses to dismiss such information there is another who will take such information and use it towards their next purchase. That is what is important and what SBG is all about. Not being right but sharing information through reviews, experience, knowledge given freely and with certain justifiable bias pending sword or manufacturer. For example I'm not simply going to give the thumbs up to a poster who buys and reviews a $20 BudK "Carbon Steel" katana, simply because he used it to cut through a milk jug, it survived and in their opinion is "Just as good as the $100-$1000 katana on the market." That would be just wrong and against what SBG is supposed to be. Sure we're the "friendly" forum but that doesn't equate to encouraging or bypassing wrong information or unexperienced opinions that could possibly be hazardous to both a buyer and the sword market community as a whole. Especially just to avoid an argument.
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Post by szabla on Jul 18, 2016 17:57:12 GMT
What I wrote is not about not to have own opinion and publish it. I point out the way how opinion is expressed. Argue but not assult person, don't take personally things. In clear way express your oppinion however avoid things like assign other person unethical motives for example if u don't have solid prove. This r some suggestions for all of us ( me-szabla (polska wz1968 included)).
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