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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 8, 2014 20:15:47 GMT
Ok, another "looking for sword" topic, seems to be most all of what I do on here these days. So lately I've been using a Rawlings basket hilt sparring sword and I have to admit, its got me feeling a mite bit swashbuckle-y... swashbuckeringy? Ah whate ever. My fencing training has been pretty diverse; foil, epee, kendo, bit of saber, chinese jian, and some fetchshule. And I always find it nice when I start to develop a liking to a sword on a functional basis, not just on looks. So being the hopeless mess of a man I am, I see myself wanting a Proper basket hilt broadsword. Affordable to be sure, I rarely spend more than $200-$300 on swords, but well made with proper weight and steel and so forth. A nice aesthetic would be good too, but nothing elaborate or fancy, pretty functional looking. In particular someone recommended to me the Cold Steel Horseman's Basket Hilt sword, and when he showed it to me I fell in love. It wasn't the usual brass basket-ed, red velvet cushioned Scottish style I see floating everywhere online. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/broad-sword.html beautiful no frills basket, wide open for pretty much any hand, longer egg pommel for big hands (I have very big hands), and most importantly, it was reported to have really good fencing balance and flex/durability ratio. Cold Steel is often known for making crowbars of swords in many cases, looking more for excessive sharpness and durability than proper percussion points and balance (though most of the swords I got by them are alright on that front). Much to my chagrin though, this amazingly distinctive style of basket hilt by cold steel was discontinued, as the one they make now is a more classic mortuary hilt with red backing. While that style is ok and something I can settle on, i'd desperately try to find a much more unique style of basket hilt like the Horseman's broadsword they did. Does anyone know if anybody sells the Cold Steel Horseman's Broadsword anymore despite its discontinued status? Or another broadsword that also avoids the usual Scottish style in favor of something functionally dynamic like the Horseman's broadsword? Preferably in the $200 to $300 range, or lower. And in lieu of that, if one cannot be found, pretty much any well made, well balanced basket hilt broadsword that would be available either in or on the underside of that price range. I realize that's a tall order but I always come here first for questions like this because chances are, someone on this site probably knows something regarding any question asked, its just a matter of hoping said person reads it. |
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Sept 8, 2014 21:16:42 GMT
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Razor
Senior Forumite
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Post by Razor on Sept 8, 2014 21:58:22 GMT
The Cold Steel Horseman's Basket, Is a Schiavona basket. You just missed one for sale in the classifieds. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=22259Cold Steel, doesn't sale a Mortuary hilt sword, plus a Mort isn't a Scottish basket hilt, it's a English basket hilt. Since Cold Steel discontinued their shiavona, I don't know where you can find on around $300. You sould go to the classifieds and ask to see if someone could sell you a schiavona. You might find a Windlass or a Cold Steel one. viewforum.php?f=37 |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Sept 8, 2014 22:09:41 GMT
Maybe have a look here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22940New one from Windlass and under $300. The cold Steel Horseman is not longer made, but every now and than one turns up here at the SALE forum. That is how I got mine after 2 years.  Also have a look here: www.gggodwin.com/prod-174.htmI will go after that one myself. This is a firm of good standing with quality product. Cheers. |
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 9, 2014 2:24:21 GMT
Ahh first off let me apologize for mincing terms. I kinda lumped mortuary hilts (english) and the Scottish hilts together. You are correct cold steel doesn't make the Mortuary hilt, Hanwei does. Cold steel still makes the Scottish ones. Indeed though, I am looking for either a German Basket or an Schiavona. Thank you for all the leads, I'll look into them, and by all means, if anyone finds more on this, please post it up.
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Post by Lochinvar on Sept 9, 2014 3:14:24 GMT
The Horseman's baskethilt - although it resembles a Schiavona, was in fact modeled after actual basket-hilts used by English forces under King George I & II, obviously inspired by the Schiavona, but having an egg-shaped pommel instead of the flat cat-head shaped pommel as found on Schiavonas (see figures 7 & 8):  A later period English basket hilt, circa 1788:   |
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 9, 2014 13:07:40 GMT
Good correction there. The basket does definitely look Schiavona but I was noticing in my search that none of the SChiavona broadswords had that egg pommel I liked so much on the horseman. I wonder why they stopped making it though. I mean it seemed pretty popular from what I've been reading, and its not like they had to discontinue a ton of their stock like Hanwei did (because Hanwei had a forge fire incident). Sadly I'm not sure I'll be able to find a Schiavona that's anywhere within my budget, let alone one as sleek as that Cold Steel horseman. Worse comes to worse, I'll settle for a Mortuary or Scottish Leathannmor, though I really wish in this day and age I could get something like the basket and pommel made and just grind a blade out with the balance I need myself.
So while still looking for a good Schiavona or English Schiavona inspired Broadsword, I propose a side topic: Whats the best priced Scottish Or Mortuary hilt style broadsword in relation to balance and craftsmanship, overall handling?
My first instinct is to look at the Hanwei Practical series one, because it was one of the swords they kept on the line after the forge fires. But while I hear some people swear by it, I have heard other reviews seem a little odd, criticizing it on multiple points others praise it for, so I'm not exactly sure who to believe on that. But either way, there are probably more affordable/stable options out there too so I'm open to anything.
*sigh* one day I might be able to afford a Schiavona...
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Sept 9, 2014 16:42:26 GMT
Mortuary Swords. Armour Class makes a few. THIS ONE that you can see at Kult of Athena is highly regarded. It's not at KOA right now - you would have to go to Armour Class to get it. It costs around $350.00. HERE is a review of it over at myArmoury. Armour Class makes other Mortuary swords, but they are more expensive. Then there is Hanwei's Cromwell Mortuary Sword seen at KOA. I think it looks a lot better without all the paint on it, as you can see on THIS THREAD over at myArmoury. One problem with Hanwei's Practical Mortuary is the width of the hilt. There is variation from sword to sword. If you are unlucky, you might get one with a hilt so narrow that it is difficult to move your hand around inside it to hold it they way you want to. HERE is a review of the sharp version. |
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Post by Lochinvar on Sept 9, 2014 21:46:21 GMT
Here is an early pattern Scottish broadsword that I put together using the basket off of Windlass' Scottish cutlass and the blade off of Cold Steel's Scottish basket hilt (which has an ugly historically inaccurate, gun-blued finished hilt, but a nice blade):  The hilt I took off of the Windlass cutlass has a round pommel similar to the egg-shaped pommel on the Cold Steel Horseman's basket hilt. Here are a couple of examples ofsome original early Scottish broadswords of similar pattern:   |
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 9, 2014 22:17:44 GMT
Which Windlass cutlass did you take the basket hilt off of? Because I looked at both types they presently carry on museum replicas (they're the windlass carriers in GA) but neither basket or pommel quite matched the ones in that picture. I'd be somewhat willing to attempt this project if there's a way I could get a hold of a good looking basket and round pommel like that.
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 9, 2014 22:19:24 GMT
Oh wait you said their Scottish Cutlass. OK yeah I see it now. That is rather interesting, sort of like a faux Schiavona. Did you ahve to do any sort of alteration of the blade or fittings to make them fit well?
Also, Do you know if other Windlass Blades are balanced well for this? Cold steel is a bit out of my budget if I'm getting it for parts alone, seeing as their broadsword is in the 400 range by itself, where as I'd probably be getting two windlass swords for around the same ammount in this. I'd also be curious if a hanwei practical broadsword blade would fit in there too, wich would factor out to a cheaper project entirely.
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Post by Lochinvar on Sept 10, 2014 0:02:02 GMT
You can pick up one of Cold Steel's Scottish basket hilts for right around $225 (including shipping) new on ebay if you look for them. There are a number of dealers that carry them on ebay, the one I purchased mine from was ecop out of Missouri. Since I didn't want the baskethilt or matching scabbard, I sold them and the Windlass cutlass blade to another sword enthusiast who bought them for a project. The only thing I had to do to make it work was get a 50 cent cap-nut to screw onto the tip of the tang where it sticks out through the top of the pommel, since the Cold Steel blade had a smaller-gauge threaded rod wielded to the end of the tang than the original windlass cutlass blade had. What I put together using the parts was a sword that more closely resembles the original 1500s era Scottish basket hilt on which the Windlass hilt was based. Here is the antique original in a museum in Scotland:   This sword is the fore-runner of the later Scottish basket hilts most people are more familiar with. Rather than imitating the Schivona, I believe it evolved independent of it. The Scottish beak-nosed ribbon hilt swords feature similar hilts and seem to be a transition from the earlier form to the later style that is more widely known:    |
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Post by Lochinvar on Sept 10, 2014 0:12:35 GMT
This one:  For some reason Windlass decided to put a Sinclair saber blade on this hilt, which doesn't really look anything like the kind of hilt normally seen on Sinclair sabers, which generally look more like this:  |
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Razor
Senior Forumite
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Post by Razor on Sept 10, 2014 0:26:23 GMT
The Hanwei practical broadswords, is a blunt intended for stage and reenactment and will not be as balanced like a sharp would. If you are looking for a blade? you can't go wrong with these. You are going to do some work to get everything to work, but you should get a great handling sword when all is done. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... word+Blade www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... ith+Fuller |
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 10, 2014 12:55:42 GMT
hmm, I wonder what thread style they use. it might be a smidge long for the handle though, so I'd have to figure out how to adjust thread size, should windlass and hanwei use different ones, and adjust the tang length without weakening it. that being said, this would be a much cheaper option. though I'd probably still have to build/scrounge around for a sheath to fit the tinker blade, but baby steps I guess.
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Post by KenshinTrigger on Sept 10, 2014 20:17:23 GMT
Also need to think about what sheath to use for it if the Tinker sword works. I'm absolute rubbish at making hard scabbards, and sadly Hanwei does not sell spare/replacement scabbards for anything but katanas.
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