Chinese sparring swords, particularly Jian

Hi!

I myself am trying a solution too… As far as my research goes…


I think it was at kultofathena that I heard of stage combat swords, those are quite like the usual sword, but they are sturdier, so they might withstand some abuse… I can't recall if there is any jian of this type, but, that is a beginning.

Talking about larp swords, or any foam sword for that matter, you can always build a heavier foam sword. I am creating a group (clan, any name you might wanna give) trying to practice dueling and sparring with any chinese weapons and as far as we could research, heavier foam swords are the best option so far. You can build it yourself quite easily, you can give it any weight you wish and you are also able to control the POB you want it to have, they are extremely cheap. If you want it to look nice, it mostly depends on your own skill as a foam wordsmith.

The down points of heavy larp swords:

- It might take a while to build your first weapons if you have no experience whatsoever
- It might look ugly
- If not constructed properly, its life span can be short
- It is, after all, foam, so, on impact it does not behave like metal


The advantages of DIY heavy larp swords

- You can always repair it yourself. Since you are the one who built it, you know where it went wrong.
- If properly made, it can last A LONG TIME.
- Cheaper than any other option.
- You can build any kind of weapon you wish, be it a jian, a dao, a spear, a guandao. I am trying to figure it out on how to make a chain whip.
- You can customize it any way you want.
- You can control any variables of the weapon you are making.
- It is quite safer to spar with these weapons (as far as I can say, all you need are some protective goggles), compared to wood or metal.

Now, the only thing that bothers me is the fact that these foam swords bounce a little on impact. But…
Bouncing might not be so bad, after all, it forces you to try and control your weapon better. If you can control it, imagine how steady your hand will be when hitting with a non bouncy weapon.
Still, if you want a more realistic feeling, you can try and do some lighter sparring with real metal to close this gap in your training, and, if you are going easier on your partner, you don't need to search for those really well constructed jian, any cheaper one will do the job.

Hope it helps!

This is beautiful!

How much does it weight?

tonym: Wow that is remarkably beautiful. What wood is that? It looks a bit like oak but some of the lighting in the pictures started to make me think Ipe, though I was probably closer on my first guess.
How much do those swords you make usually go for? I sadly don't really have much of a woodworking space at my home, nor the tools for it beyond maybe sand paper and a whittling knife. So while I one day wish to be able to make wooden swords like that, I'm not entirely able to right now. I'm not even entirely sure where I'd start yet, though hopefully when the time comes for me to make one, I'll have a template of measurements on hand. in the meantime i'm mostly just in the market for purchasing wasters if they're affordable and weighted well.

@alvero: I'm very familiar with kult of athena, so you're not far off in your suggestion on stage steel. The thing that keeps frustrating me though, the stage steel jian I've found have two problems:
1)of the ones I've seen, a lot try to make them too aesthetically similar to a jian without taking the thick edge into account, throwing off the point of balance. the fabri arms one i've seen seems to avoid this though that's discontinued and was like 300 bucks anyways.
2) and here's what baffles me, none of the stage steel jian I've seen have a proper stage tip. www.medievalcollectibles.com/p-1090-tai-chi-sword.aspx this is the worst offender out of them Ive found, and it just perplexes me. a stage sword should have what I like to call a "butterknife" tip, in that it tapers but round so it looks like the tip of a sword as its moving, but its so blunt there's no chance of penetration. Yet the stage steel jian I've seen keep putting pointy tips on the ends, and since a jian is primarily a thrusting weapon, I don't know how that's really any safer than just using a live sword.

I'd love to try using a stage steel for slow contact practice if thats what it comes down to, but honestly I'd probably be better off forging my own to my specifications and that'd take a remarkable ammount of time and effort with my current forging setup and materials. probably wouldn't be satisfactory too because I'm still an amateur.

I have considered making my own boffer and maybe just figuring out how to weight it properly, though getting the slim profile down right using foam (or hell just making one at all) is new territory for me, so I will try to attempt this sometime in the future when i have a free weekend and the funds. For now I'm banking on a pre-constructed deal, since the "making it" option will always be open so long as I have the means and time eventually.

---
oh and a little update to my original post: I'm pretty sure the WJL sparring swords mentioned in the older thread from 2010 refers to World Jianshu League, though with one answer arises more questions: the thread mentioned there are WJL poly sparring swords that could be used for the competitions, as the original thread topic that had been posted back then was comparing the RSW and the WJL sparring swords. however, I still have not been able to find much on any WJL sparring swords at all, just the league competitions themselves.


@alvero again: Btw, I've made something similar to a boffer chainwhip before. it was for kung fu practice, since I was worried about the chain going out of control during a close-quarters practice drill (everything was close quarters in that dojo, very small). You can get a plastic/poly chain from a hardware store, usually for decorative fixtures, and then use epoxy of some kind to make sure there are no chain gaps if its that kind of one (usually I find them closed linked so its not a problem). to make them sturdier too you can coat the links with epoxy, but this is time consuming and sometimes it can come off under constant stressful use so i just used the plastic chain as it is. anywho, I put a small sewn bag, at one end of the chain for the weight. you can use half an ouce of buckshot to weigh it or just some playground sand so long as its tighly sealed (use a rubber bladder for the lining, or if yuou're feeling experimental, flex seal the whole damn thing). here' where it gets interesting though: get pvc pipe that can fit over the chain and cut it into equal lengths that represent the long parts of a chinese chainwhip. drill holes in either end of each segment, then slide them down the chain and use twine or zipties to keep them attached to chains, and thus you have the longer sections of a chainwhip linked together by the links inbetween them, made out of lighter plastic, but consistently durable enough for accurate swinging to an extent. I stopped there because this was for training purposes, but if you're going full boffer you could probably add the PVC foam ontop of the pipe link sections for the padding, so long as the chain and pipe sections were slim enough in the first place. Not sure how well this overall design translates to larp, but lemme know if you try it.

How much would you charge for 2 of those?

Btw, I shot Scott Rodell an email asking about the WJL swords, now I wait

Btw 2, If the only problem with the stage swords is the tip, couldn't you just wear it off somehow?

I sell them for $60 but I am in Australia so shipping to where-ever is a cost factor for international orders. I don't make them for profit just like to do my part to help out the Chinese sword community have access to another choice of Jian.
I started to make my own years ago when I found too the lack of authentic training Jian available, after a lot of trial and some error this is now where I'm at.

Mine are made of a local Timber native to Western Australia that is very durable and has good tenacity, is called Jarrah. The guards are a mix of different weighted woods also local to Australia.
Cheers

Also look up Graham Cave at 'Tigers Den' for more options depending on your needs.

I'd say that a Rawlings longsword feels very much like a two-handed jian. I don't think one would be a good substitute for a one-handed jian, since it would be enormously longer, but the essence of jian balance is there. They work for execution of jian technique, but the length ...

I think it would be good for you to be as explicit and quantitative as possible and describe the balance and handling you want (weight, POB, forward pivot point). IMO, jian tend to balance and handle like lots of other cut-and-thrust swords with good point control; the key is to have the forward pivot point close to the tip, and you can find many swords like that, So perhaps some Euro cut-and-thrust, with acceptable grip, would be a fair jian substitute even if it doesn't look like a jian. Better IMO than a sword that looks like a jian but doesn't handle like one.

But some people like jian to balance very close to the guard, rather than like antique jian. Indeed, some MA styles will prescribe that. If that's what you want/need, then an antique-like jian won't work for you. So good to be specific regarding what you want.