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Post by AlvaroWang on Aug 7, 2014 4:01:26 GMT
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Aug 7, 2014 4:26:25 GMT
Fascinating!
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Post by JGonzalez on Aug 7, 2014 4:32:59 GMT
Damn! and here I was all set to get some shut eye....Thank you BTW
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Post by AlvaroWang on Aug 7, 2014 20:02:45 GMT
I find it funny that even their heaviest armor are not like the european counterparts, like fully covered from head to toe, maybe it is because of them being smaller and unable to carry that much weight.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 7, 2014 21:42:29 GMT
Their heaviest armour (e.g., heaviest late Ming brigandine) was pretty much head-to-toe (though with the face not as well protected as by the best European visors), and similar weight to heavy European battlefield armours. Brigandine rather than plate, but given that the torso armour was musket-resistant, protective enough.
Brigandine works well, and can provide better protection than plate against arrows for the same weight. Neither works very well against the best Chinese anti-armour weapons - jingals, very heavy muskets (or very light cannon, if you prefer) with two-man crews.
Less protected face, less protected hands. The Chinese armoured soldier was much more likely to use a bow than his European counterpart, which affects hand protection.
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Post by AlvaroWang on Aug 7, 2014 23:14:48 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 8, 2014 0:02:06 GMT
Weight will be about the same.
European full plate armours for the battlefield have better hand and face protection than MIng/Qing brigandines, but often worse back-of-leg and buttock protection; they're equestrian armours. Chinese equestrian brigandines can be lacking there as well, but some of the split skirt designs work well on both foot and horse.
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Post by LiamPBoyle on Oct 18, 2014 16:12:36 GMT
Dang, now I need to figure out how to make some of those Han style designs.
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Jun 29, 2015 23:30:00 GMT
One a per square inch basis, European armours will tend to weigh more. But look at the drape, the saize of the tassets (often called skirts), the Pauldrons (similarly oversized)...
There's a lot More armour in the Chinese styles. So similar or greater weight. My Ming-style armour weighs 70Lbs, plus helm. In leather.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 30, 2015 1:00:12 GMT
European plate might be 2-3mm thick, helmet and breastplate, 1-2mm thick arms and legs. Brigandines are often about 1mm thick (though you'll find thicker torso plates on heavy Chinese brigandines), and with overlap, you'll have about 2mm total thickness (only counting overlap in one direction). So comparable weight per square inch, but the brigandine would be heavier, since it includes the fabric.
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Jun 30, 2015 18:44:13 GMT
Brigandine doesn't typically have overlap. You're thinking about scale or lamellar. Brigandine is side by side plates between 2 layers of fabric and/or leather, typically all 3 layers riveted together, the rivets being what holds the plates in place.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 30, 2015 19:23:06 GMT
Brigandines always have overlap. I haven't seen an authentic example without it (if you have, let me know - I'm interested in exceptions). See examples in sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/44535/brigandineThe tricky part is finding examples where they show the inside, and where the lining is gone (or wasn't there; some East Asian brigandines look like they were never lined). Qing brigandines with long thin plate have sideways overlap that gives 2 thicknesses over most of the armour. Ming and Qing large plate brigandines have about 1/3 overlap both side-to-side and up-down. (About 1/6 or so on each side, for 1/3 counting both sides. This gives an average of 2 thicknesses overall ((4/3)^2, if the overlap is exactly 1/3). This example is typical for a Chinese large-plate brigandine: Three rivets through each plate. On the exposed plates at the top right, you can see the rivets, while the overlap covers the rivets on the others. Not that much overlap, but the plates are large and thick.
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Jun 30, 2015 20:18:08 GMT
Anyway, great vids. I especially like the Song/Yuan Dynasty one. The armour that Armstreet and I accidentally recreated appears at 11:57 in it. It's amazing how close we got without ever seeing the real thing. The starting point was their interpretation of a Korean variant of a Ming Dynasty armour. And we ended up with what is in the video. We finalized the design for new arms and legs which I hope to wear in a month at Pennsic, and next year, we're moving to do a better helm.
Hopefully they will all be at least as good as the body turned out to be.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Jun 30, 2015 21:27:59 GMT
Great vids. Not only was the evolution or armor interesting, I found the weaponry equally interesting.
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