Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 12:27:53 GMT
You defentaly would have a customer here in BC, I would love to find more of these types of blades.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2007 8:12:44 GMT
here are the da dao specs: quite a robust specimen. sry for the conversion... blade length; guard – tip: 60cm (about 23.5") Length hilt: 25cm (about 10") Thickness at guard: 9mm (0.35") Thickness at tip: 3.5mm (0.14") Weight without scabbard: 1.3kg (2.87 lbs) POB: About 11cm from guard (4.33") edit: the strap was also just completed. the strap will match the scabbard unlike the the pic. A different piece of leather was used. ![](http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4/gic102/strap001.jpg)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2007 16:35:51 GMT
Garrett: Can you get some of the more obscure chinese blades made? For example the shark tooth jian? Problem is i have only been able to find one picture of it and it was not the antique version. Also are you considering weapons that are not necessarily swords like the deer horn weapons or anything like that? It would be great to be able to buy some of the really unique weapons, like the hook swords and whatnot. The da dao looks great, not my favourite sword but nice all the same. Can you give us any information on just how the swords are being made and tempered?
|
|
slav
Member
Senior Forumite
Katsujin No Ken
Posts: 4,457
|
Post by slav on Dec 9, 2007 17:13:54 GMT
1095! Yay.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 9, 2007 17:17:02 GMT
Garrett: Can you get some of the more obscure chinese blades made? For example the shark tooth jian? Problem is i have only been able to find one picture of it and it was not the antique version. Also are you considering weapons that are not necessarily swords like the deer horn weapons or anything like that? It would be great to be able to buy some of the really unique weapons, like the hook swords and whatnot. The da dao looks great, not my favourite sword but nice all the same. Can you give us any information on just how the swords are being made and tempered? Isn't his goal historical accuracy not whimsical fantasy designs?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2007 23:14:04 GMT
Ramm, the weapons he mentioned were probably fantasy designs a few hundred years ago but have become historically accurate now in Chinese martial arts lol. Garrett: Can you get some of the more obscure chinese blades made? For example the shark tooth jian? Problem is i have only been able to find one picture of it and it was not the antique version. Also are you considering weapons that are not necessarily swords like the deer horn weapons or anything like that? It would be great to be able to buy some of the really unique weapons, like the hook swords and whatnot. The da dao looks great, not my favourite sword but nice all the same. Can you give us any information on just how the swords are being made and tempered? I will be taking custom orders as well so I can definitely get them for you, but the thing is the demand for them doesn't really warrant stocking large quantities. The forge primarily does high end custom work so they'd be done on a special order custom basis, but if you can get a group buy (around 10 people) it would be a lot more price effective. I am familiar with most of the Chinese weapons, but I'm not sure about the shark tooth jian. I'll check to see if serrated jian ever popped up in China. I know they did in other cultures. In a nutshell: The blades are made using forged 1095 steel. They are then oil quenched, tempered, and normalized over heated coals bringing the final hardness to about 56/57 HRC. The blades are then polished by hand to about 3000 grit and machine buffed to 10000 grit. Maybe a satin finish for training blades? Fittings are handcarved in clay and used to make a mold that can continue to be used for production. So I can take custom orders for special fittings as well, but it is quite pricey. Fittings are typically made of brass or iron. I believe the wood for the scabbards/handles is hong mu hardwood. I'm contemplating whether or not to epoxy everything inside the handle together. I'm just not sure if Chinese martial artists would be educated enough to maintain their swords and check for safety and I'm not really willing to be held liable for that. Maybe epoxy the blunt training swords and not the sharpies?
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 9, 2007 23:24:25 GMT
For show, yes. For practicality, most certainly not.
edit: serrated swords were highly ineffective, although I can think one one particular example used by artillery crew during the napoleonic era....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 1:49:20 GMT
Ramm: you can be really offensive sometimes, did you know that? Just because it doesn't fit your idea of historical accuracy doesn't mean that it isn't. You may know a lot about medieval weaponry but your ignorance about chinese weapons is apparent. ![](http://www.chinwoo.com.au/joomla/images/stories/weapons_deer_horn_knives.jpg) These are not whimsical fantasy design, they are used in Ba Gua Zhang. Here is the serrated jian i am talking about, i could give you the chinese names garrett but i am not sure if you would know most of them. ![](http://www.chinwoo.com.au/joomla/images/stories/weapons_shark_teeth_straight_sword.jpg) Garrett: i merely asked because i was curious about what the extent of the weaponry available might be. Are you planning on making a two handed straight sword in chinese it would be a Shuang Shou Jian?
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 10, 2007 1:54:02 GMT
Show me an antique, not modern drivel.
I'm more than willing to change my beliefs, but as of now I've yet to see any reason to believe in this whole "chinese exoticism." Looking at TRUE chinese fighting, not made up competition martial arts, it's pretty apparet to me that these just don't seem to fit reality.
That said, you're right I don't know "that" much about chinese history. However, I don't believe you do either. And my sincere apologies for being offensive, that wasn't my goal.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 10, 2007 2:09:07 GMT
www.circlepalms.net/Actually you may be on to something, but it's entirely different from what I'm thinking of. I still maintain they are completely impractical and not meant for a real battle (which I've said over and over again) - their meant for stylized combat rather than largescale war. Karma for being right, but I'm about to go put you into place in another debate ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 2:16:09 GMT
Actually i know a fair bit about chinese weaponry, not so much the history. I don't know that they were ever utilized on the battlefield but that isn't really my main interest, i like dueling weapons and weapons that are effective in one on one fighting, i guess that is the difference between us.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 10, 2007 2:22:06 GMT
Well that probably should have been specified before we started this semi-bad blood ;D
Western europe had some weapons for dueling that were just as wierd if not even more exotic.
But meant for battlefield, they were not!
(My apologies, btw).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 2:30:26 GMT
It's ok, i guess i just get annoyed when people are telling me that weapons used in many different chinese martial arts are "whimsical fantasy designs." No hard feelings actually, i enjoy the cut and thrust of friendly debate ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 4:26:37 GMT
damn you 2 for hijacking my thread lol. I was going to argue with Ramm, but I didn't want this thread to turn messy. Yes, those weapons are real as in specialized for specific martial arts; they were not used at all on the battlefield where weapons would have been standardized. Blooodwraith I'm familiar with most Chinese weapons by sight so don't worry about confusing me. You can give me the Chinese names. I am Chinese so I should be ok and if I'm not ok I have relatives who are. ![:D](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) It's a custom forge so basically I can have anything made as long as it's made of steel and has a blade or more. The only thing is how much labor will be involved. Think about the shark tooth jian and how labor intensive it would be to sharpen. That would give you a price estimate...so group buys if you want to save money! shuang shou jian are actually one of my favorite swords. I will definitely offer it at some point but I will start with the most common stuff first. here is the tentative chronological order of swords that I will stock; custom orders will be available from the get go: the first 3 will be for start up. The profits from sales will mostly be used to expand the inventory selection so it's pretty much non-profit lol. EDIT: I won't use Chinese terms anymore except the established terms...they deter beginners... jian (gim) goose quill / willow leaf saber da dao ox tail saber horse chopping saber / miao dao 2 handed jian (gim) ... and then will be the really old stuff that Chinese martial arts don't use anymore. (Han, Tang etc.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 4:54:29 GMT
On the swords with threaded hilts, have you made any decision as to size of threads? That can be the downfall of an otherwise great sword. Again, beefy is the operative word. If possible, I'd suggest going with 6mm as a minimum diameter. ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Btw, 9mm to 3.5mm on the da dao blade? Sweeeeeeet!. ![8-)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 5:20:22 GMT
Luckily my Zheng Wu jian is disassembled at the moment. I will be using Zheng Wu as my benchmark. I measured the diameter at exactly 6 mm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 7:37:00 GMT
Cool. Kind of a freaky coincidence, eh? ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 11:13:56 GMT
SHUANG SHOU JIAN! Sorry had a slight keyboard malfunction, too much drool affecting the turning off of the caps lock key. When you make this sword i will definitely buy one, i have always wanted one as they are my favourite sword as well. What are the specifications you are looking at for this one? Now i have to decide whether i wait for the swords you are making or whether i save up and go custom. Decisions decisions! Sorry for hi-jacking ![:D](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I will shower you in karma when this becomes realized.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Dec 10, 2007 23:10:44 GMT
Many apologies, but bloodwraith and I worked out an argument we've been having for quite a while ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 6:07:06 GMT
Yes i think the universe has gone topsy turvy, Ramm and i sorted something out.
[gir voice]i know i'm scared too![/gir voice]
No more hi-jacking
On with the shuang shou jian, i am tempted to buy one of those wooden ones i saw.
|
|