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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 12, 2014 17:33:14 GMT
Hello Military Forum,
I have no knowledge of sabers, other that i would like to acquire a curved french saber with a complex brass hilt on it. I have been browsing around modern productions of them and i can't seem to take a pick, many produce them but the stats are so wildly different from one maker to another that i can't figure out if one of them, if any is accurate.
My question is basically what modern production sabers are historically accurate? Bonus if any of them is like the one i'm looking for.
ps: I believe the US Sabers also looked a lot like the French model i'm looking for.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 12, 2014 18:05:07 GMT
It sounds as though you are referring to the French light cavalry sabre M1822 and it's variants. These are the brass, three bar guarded sabres with 36 inch blades. The Napoleonic AN XI lt Cav sabre is the predecessor. For Napoleonics check out Empire Costume: en.empirecostume.com/napoleonic-sabres-and-swords-c76.htmThere is no good source for the Fr M1822 Lt Cav. The US M1840 is a germanized version of the French that has 6 more ozs of forward blade weight. The Cold Steel M1840 is about the best of the replica's of this type. It is a special contract version of a Windlass model. The Windlass model has a reputation for core grip material shrinkage. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS88HCS&name=Cold+Steel+1860+US+Heavy+Cavalry+Saber( It's listed as an M1860; proof again that CS doesn't know their arses from a hole in the ground; but they usually put out a decent sword. Another option is the WIndlass 1860/1906 commemorative. This is another American variant of the French, but it is a very handsome replica and a bargain at the offered price. Slightly smaller than the French '22, but similar handling. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=501392&name=US+1906+Cavalry+SaberNothing beats possession of a real 1822. The original is very smooth and brilliant in handling. Weight is very centered on the blade. The foible is very slight. The sword is built to favor thrusting rather than cutting. These can be had under $500.00 on ebay if one is patient. Which one do you like? :mrgreen: /thread/19243
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jul 12, 2014 20:14:09 GMT
It might also be an option to get an original. Depending on the type and condition, they're not too expensive.
EDIT: Ah, Dave beat me to it.
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 13, 2014 0:21:03 GMT
I can't get an antique, it feels profoundly wrong to me to own and USE another man's sword once he has past ( i know its weird, it has to do with my work).
Your answer was profoundly detailed Mr.Kelly, i thank you very much for it, but unfortunately none of those swords tickle my fancy, despite being the type of sword i described, every one of them seems to have something wrong with, the best of the lot is definitely the cold steel, but a nut system...?
I intend on using the purchased sword, in various test, ranging from thick rolled newspapers to cutting pork and goat carcasses. So i need something as historically accurate as the current market can offer. Without factoring in my love for 1822 french saber models, what 5 models are hands down the best reproductions on the market today? Price is not an issue, but i won't go custom due to the waiting list on that sort of work.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 13, 2014 11:10:55 GMT
I'm hard pressed to tell you that there are any modern swords on the market, outside of custom forges, that approach any strict standard of reproduction. Either the sword stock isn't the same as the originals or the taper isn't done to avoid the time and cost finishing the blade. Windlass Steelcrafts in the best of the esatern mass marketers in terms of end product quality control, but even they are erratic is design; sometimes nearly perfect and sometimes taking the opposite tac.
Cold Steel pretends to be a furbisher, but they are a retailer of contracted goods from the known forges. They charge exorbatant prices for customized Windlass, Dynasty Forge, Universal and lesser forges. Still their contracted modifications are some of the best out there.
The Cold Steel Shamshir is not literally an eastern design. It is a modified european style reminiscent of military sabres employed 1800-1840 in European Armies. Bit on the light side but rugged.
The Cold Steel M1860: I wouldn't dismiss this sabre because it uses a 1900 lock nut device common to many miilitary swords in the west pre WWI. Blade is close to the Solingen specs for this styalized montmorency.
The Cold Steel P1796 Sabre: Another Napoleonic classic. At 2.5lbs this comes in on the heavy side for this class of sabre. Some of the early production P1796 are this heavy. Most are more in the 2 lb. In the right hands this is capable of cleaving a skull down to the jaw ( recorded incidents in the Peninsula War.)
The Cold Steel Austrian 1904: Accurate to the originals I have handled. This is not a high tempered, lively sword. It is a stolid cutting blade. Properly sharpened it should do well. Don't know where the original model comes from. Hilt looks correct. That usually eliminates most eastern forges.
I don't usually recommend Universal Swords, because their carbon steel tends to be low tempered 1045 of 45 or less hardness. Also their hilts tend to be much smaller than spec which messes up the balance of the weapon. Under pressure from their distributors Universal has made progress of late with some new models.
I'm impressed with the Coffin Hilt Sabre they recently issued. This is a common high end sabre of the late 18th Century. Full tang hilt. Balance is good and the blade is very good. Properly sharpened this has potential.
If you are doing test cutting for forensic analytics you'd best have three or four swords to work with. Not even an original sabre will take repeated, long duration heavy use. Much also depends on your skill of the weilder.
This is the best I can think of.
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