Shamshir: Windlass and Cold Steel

Good comparison review. Thanks Dave!

Dear Fellow SBG Forum members,
I wish I saw this excellent review of CS Scimitar and WS Shamshir earlier! That would save me a lot of time on doing my less than sophisticated comparison of these two swords. Still, being absolutely unaware of the marvelous review posted here, I did my humble side-by-side evaluation. I am not going to post any pictures because the images presented earlier in the excellent review, require no additions. Still, i would allow to drop a few pennies of my humble evaluation - please, don't judge too hard as I am a new here

Here it comes (I posted it on Amazon):
To begin with, Cold Steel provides with wrong and historically inaccurate description of what they call "shamshir". The word "shamshir" is wrongly interpreted by many. In Persian, it means "sword" - in fact, the very same word (slightly different pronunciations are recorded from different regions) was used for the earlier Persian swords which were straight and double edged. However, there are some indications of the curved blades appearance in Persia after the Arab conquest of Iran (early 7th century). This may explain the confusion: the name "shamshir" previously used for the Persian straight-blade double-edged swords was adopted and entirely transferred to the curved swords of Arabs.

I have this Cold Steel specimen purchased several years ago. In my humble opinion, it is bad. The grip is not very comfortable. The blade is bulky and not well balanced. The blade's fuller is pathetically shallow and poorly machined. Mine came sharpened and the sharpening is at a weird angle more suitable for a kitchen knife than for a sword's blade. The scabbard is strikingly similar if not identical to the scabbard of a scimitar made by Windlass Steelcrafts - those of you who are curious, "Google" it. In fact, it has already been debated for several years on numerous forums that Cold Steel's shamshir is actually made by Windlass. My Cold Steel's shamshir weights 862.7 g (Adventurer Pro OHAUS digital balance), while claimed in the sword's specs at about 853.3 g. I guess approx. 0.8% of deviation from the specs is okay for the mass-produced sword. Windlass' scimitar is claimed to be just 680.4 g. My specimen came at 767.4 g which is 87 g heavier than it is claimed - a significant 12.8% overweight. Both blades look identical. Also, when measured at the same distance from the tip (Fisher Scientific Digital Caliper; Resolution 0.1 mm, Accuracy +/- 0.2 mm), both blades are 29.3 mm wide and 4.3 mm thick. If the blades are the same, how is it possible that the ColdSteel's sword is 95.3 g heavier? I found the answer. First, ColdSteel is using what they call a "faux buffalo horn", which is a much heavier polymer material, and the grip is much bigger and thicker as compared to the grip of the Windlass' scimitar. If measured, overall ColdSteel's sword is about 40 mm longer. How is that possible if I just stated that both have the same blade? Here it comes. Both swords have non-sharpened part, just by the grip. This blunt part is 81 mm long on ColdSteel's specimen and 38.4 mm long on the Windlass' one. Therefore it is clear that the same blade was cut from bulk steel for both swords and it was simply made shorter by the grip when prepared for the Windlass' scimitar. Also, while the Windlass' specimen looks prettier and significantly lighter, there were reports on its wooden grip being weak. Still, having relatively big hands, the Windlass' sword feels much better balanced and much easier to handle.

Thank you for your message.

I am quoting here: "... the term shamshir is a general term in Persian and does not refer to any shape of its blade. Prior to Arab Conquest of Iran and the introduction of Islam in 631 C.E., the swords used in Iran were all straight-bladed..." M. Khorasani "Lexicon of Arms and Armors from Iran" LEGAT, Germany, 2010.

As for your second question, I expressed my surprise by the smaller size grip still delivering a comfortable feeling - and yes, I was talking about the one of WS, not the CS.

Also for some time afterwards. The curved sabre comes from/with Turkic peoples from Central Asia; the earliest curved sabre from there I know of with a reliably date is beginning of the 8th century, about 700. The are straight sabres for some few centuries before that, and mostly double-edged straight swords before that. By the 10th century, the curved sabre looks standard across much of Central Asia. Would have been prominent in Persian areas following conquests by Turkic dynasties (e.g., Mahmud of Ghazni), so definitely in Persia in the 10th century as well. Whether most in the hands of Turkic soldiers or being used by Persians as well is another story.

Please, notice some reports indicating possible weakness of the Windlass' grip - I saw them on YouTube, at least two. Also, the Scimitar by Winldass I have is different from Dave's: mine doesn't have any inscriptions on the blade and overall, as I mentioned, mine is much lighter. It could be that the manufacturer of the blades for CS and WS standardized the process to eliminate most of the variables (except for keeping these blades of different length).