Darksword Armory Two Handed Gothic Medieval Sword
Apr 25, 2014 5:52:38 GMT
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 25, 2014 5:52:38 GMT
Darksword ArmoryTwo Handed Gothic Medieval Sword
Sean O. Stevens, Grovetown GA
Introduction
I had a much older version of this sword before... about 6 years or more old I think. I liked the sword a lot back then... it was very attractive with its long tapered blade and Fishtail pommel. Fishtails and Scent Stoppers are my personal favorites. The sword I had then was a great stabber, very durable... but it was not without flaws. I didn't like the screw on pommel that was used then, and it was not a great cutter. The scabbard it came with was total crap.
I've noticed that DSA has made a lot of changes for the better in their swords lately... and I was curious how the newer version would compare to the old?
Historical overview
From Darksword Armory's website:
"The Type XVIIIa, Two Handed Gothic Medieval sword, was very popular in Germany during the mid to late 15th century. As the Middle Ages progressed, this versatile battle ready Sword continued to evolve according to the battlefield requirements of the day. The dedicated cutting designs of the 12th and 13th century gave way to the thrusting oriented swords of the late 14th and 15th century. By the middle of the fifteenth century, This duel function sword became an assential part of the medieval Knight arsenal. The long blade, of these 15th century medieval swords were not only capable of powerful cuts, but offered exceptional advantages with their keen ability to piece through the ever developing plate armor of the day. Hence, not only did the fifteenth century longsword possess a blade profile that allowed for effective thrusting, it also retained a large measure of its earlier ancestor's cutting ability. The battle ready sword illuminates the artistic creativity of the time, resulting from the Gothic artistic revolution in the arts. The clear crisp blade and details hexagonal quillions and crisp fishtail pommel attest to this artistic revival. Swords during this period were not only exceptionally engineered, but also showed clear artistic patterns and influences from the gothic architectual structures of the time. Hence, the Two Handed Gothic medieval sword, and thus Type XVIIIa medieval battle ready swords, were not merely weapons of war, but rather beautifully crafted pieces of fine art in their own right."
Full Disclosure
Darksword Armory provided me this sword for review, I did not buy this with my own money.
I noticed that DSA was looking for some people to review some of their newer swords... and I've also seen that Darksword Armory is a topic that comes up quite often in the community lately. Since I have owned several older DSA swords, but none of the newer offerings, I thought it might be good to compare one of the new ones to the old ones and get a sense of how much improvement has been made. I mentioned to DSA which of their swords I have owned in the past, and they sent me the Two Handed Gothic to review... which is good because that was my favorite of the DSA swords I've owned.
While I was sent this sword to review free of charge... I was not asked to 'white wash' anything or given any parameters of what I could or could not say about it. DSa told me I could destroy it, be gentle with it, send it back or keep it... do whatever I wanted to it... all they asked is that I be objective and fair.
While this is the only sword I have been sent by a company to review... I have been sent other swords that were not mine from other forum members to review before.
Initial Impressions
When the sword first arrived I was a little concerned... there was some damage to the box and I was worried the sword my have been damaged.
Digging the sword out of the box tho... I could see any damage was unlikely...
The sword was cocooned in wrap... tho the ends of the cross were the least covered area and most likely to be subject to damage in shipping if packed this way. It took a good while to get it free.
I found this card inside...
On the reverse of the card is a picture description of how to tie the belt. This sword came with an integral belt suspension with its scabbed.
In all, I was surprised by the sword as a whole as it was MUCH better in quality at first glance then the old 2 Handed Gothic sword I had.
Statistics
Blade Length: 37 & 7/8ths inches
Grip Length: 7 Inches
Overall Length: 48 & 5/8ths inches
Cross Width: 8 inches
Blade Width at Base: 2 inches
Halfway: 1 & 1/4th inches
1 Inch from Tip: 1/2 inch
Weight: 3.4lbs
Comparing my own measurements to those listed on Darksword Armory's website and on Kult of Athena... the stats on the sword seem pretty consistent. This is good news, as often a swords stats can vary wildly in hand from the ad copy.
Components
The Blade
As you can see... the sharpening is pretty rough. There is a large secondary bevel, and it gets a little uneven at the tip. The blade itself it pretty nice... its polished to a higher degree then my old Gothic Two Handed sword... its more reflective. You can't see it as well in the photos, but I could see myself clearly in the blade. Hm... maybe that's NOT a good thing. :? :lol:
There is a little bit of wave in the blade... but not as much as past examples. The length and consistent profile taper make the sword very elegant looking IMO... but the rough edge detracts from this.
The blade is fairly stiff. There is flex and if held sideways it does drop a bit... but not much.
There was a bit of marking on the base of the blade, I think from the scabbard. I removed most of it... but was unable to get it all. I think with some more dedicated scrubbing and the right solvent it would come off... but its annoying.
The Guard
The blade is well fit to the guard. There is a bit of a gap, but no looseness is present at all, everything is VERY solid. The gap is cleaner then the old version to be sure. Same with the grip/guard connection. Its a simple design but goes well on this sword I think... the over all aesthetic is pleasing to me.
The Pommel
Maybe my favorite part of this sword... I'm a sucker for Fishtail pommels. Very elegant design. The machining marks are more noticeable, I think, on the pommel then the guard. This could be buffed away I think and is pretty common on swords at this price point. The 'peen' (not a traditional peen) looks good... not almost invisible like on an Albion but better then most Windlass swords I've had.
The Grip
The grip on this sword is a huge improvement over the old one. Its still a bit rustic... as you can see some lose leather from the seam and at the ends. Its leather over cord and a lot of epoxy/glue. Its very comfortable... and there were no creaks or issues over dry handling and cutting.
The Tang
Due to recent questions about symbols/markings found on Darksword Armory's tangs... I felt it was important to break apart the grip and have a look at this swords tang. Unfortunately, the heavy deposit of epoxy-goup on the tang prevented me from seeing anything. I tried to get it off, but it was dried on there and impossible to remove.
We do get a good look at the threaded pommel... DSA does a combo of threading and peening on their swords now... which is an improvement IMO over the older threaded pommels.
The tang is not overly beefy... a bit more slender then the one on the old sword... but then the sword overall is lighter and shouldn't require a huge tang. Its within reason of what you would expect for a sword of this size and weight.
The Scabbard
This is a MASSIVE improvement from the old sword. The scabbard on the old Gothic Two Handed Sword was a flimsy piece of wood covered by thin leather that was glued on. Mine fell apart. It was sad.
This scabbard feels VERY sturdy. It holds the sword well, no rattle or movement, you can tip it upside down without it coming out.. even shake it. The integrated belt works very well. The whole rig is a VAST improvement in quality and appearance over the old scabbards. The old scabbards were something of an afterthought... just something to toss your sword in. These are actually quite nice.
Handling Characteristics
The old Gothic Two Handed Sword was the best handling of Darksword Armory's older swords that I had the chance to own... by far. The new one is better. its not THAT much light then the old one... I think maybe half a pound or a little less... but with the profile tapper of this blade design the sword move so quickly and with agility. The point tracks VERY well... this is a stabber after all. The improved grip makes handing the sword much more comfortable.
Overall, the Two Handed Gothic Sword is a pleasure to swing around.
Test Cutting
As you can see... the sword performed pretty poorly as a cutter. That said, as a thrusting/stabbing sword... it was excellent. My old Gothic Two Handed Sword was also not a very good cutter... but a pretty good stabbing sword, so I was not at all surprised by this.
This style of sword is much more focused on accurate thrusting... made for stabbing the weak points in an opponents armor as it was designed at a time when Armor in Europe was becoming very difficult to defeat with a sword.
I whacked the crap out of the cutting stand at the end there to see if I could mark the blade, damage the edge of give the sword a set by beating it into wood. Darksword Armory swords have a reputation for durability after all. Now, I'm not one of the sort that recommends that sort of thing... sure, its nice to know if a blade can take a beating... but cutting branches and hacking into wood is sword-abuse to me and I don't like to do it.
The DSA came out fine tho, as I expected it would. Durability is a hallmark of the brand... my old DSA swords were very tough, and this one is as well. There was not even any scratches on the blade... not set or signs of damage.
Still... I think the sword could function as a better cutter with a better, more blended edge. The rough secondary bevel is holding this blade back IMO. I intend to find out. I've sent the sword off for some work, including a refinement of the edge. When I get it back I'll update this review and we will see if the cutting performance can be improved.
Conclusions
My main goal with this review was to compare the quality of the Two Handed Gothic Medieval Sword to its older version. In that, the new sword is a vast improvement. The scabbard and option for integrated belt is head and shoulders better then the old offering. The grip is much more comfortable and well done, if still rough in appearance. The new sword is a bit lighter and better handling, and the fit and finish is improved.
So is it a better sword, has Darksword Armory improved their products? Hell yes.
Sadly, they have also raised their prices a bit... and that puts them in a weird spot in the sword buying world. 6 years ago you found most DSA swords to be at the upper end or just over the sub 300 price point this forum focuses on. The swords were very durable... (and still are) what many like to call 'good beater' swords... and they had a large range of different sword styles to pick from. They have even more styles now.
But... this whole package is just above 500 dollars now. That puts it above most Windlass and Hanwei offerings... and right in line with current pricing for Valiant Armory. VA tends to have more refined swords and, despite the HUGE improvement to the grip and scabbard on this new Gothic Two Handed Sword, VA offers better leatherwork as well. However... Darksword Armory offers MANY more sword styles and options, they are likely more durable, and VA swords are almost always out of stock and unavailable.
The price Point would suggest that DarkSword Armory and Valiant Armory are direct competitors in this market... and I think that is true... but both have different strengths and weaknesses... and more choice is ALWAYS good for the collector/buyer... so I think Both DSA and VA will find customers in this range.
Pros
Much improved Scabbard with integrated belt option.
Famous Darksword Armory Durability seems unchanged.
Improved fit and finish, overall balance and construction of the sword.
Cons
Higher price is going to be prohibitive for some.
Leather work appears rough on grip.
Rough secondary bevel combined with long thin blade profile makes for a poor cutter.
The Bottom Line
If your looking for a thrusting/stabbing sword of this style... then this is a very decent option. If you have the ability to sharpen your own swords... its an even better option... as the sword itself is very good, but the sharpening is not too great. The Scabbard and belt are a great option not often found as a package deal.
I think the advantage this sword has over others in the market is its durability and availability. Also, while opinions and experiences may vary... I have always found that Darksword Amory's customer service to be among the best. When I have had any issues they have addressed them quickly and to my satisfaction... and that goes a long way with me in making me feel comfortable when buying a product.
So if you are in the market for this style of sword, and are aware of its cutting limitations, then I think this Two Handed Gothic Medieval Sword is a very solid sword.
I'm going to have some modifications done to this sword as well as improving, refining the edge to see if I can make it a better cutter. Check back to this review to see what can be done to this sword as a 'Project Sword'.
Thanks for Reading!
Sean O. Stevens, Grovetown GA
Introduction
I had a much older version of this sword before... about 6 years or more old I think. I liked the sword a lot back then... it was very attractive with its long tapered blade and Fishtail pommel. Fishtails and Scent Stoppers are my personal favorites. The sword I had then was a great stabber, very durable... but it was not without flaws. I didn't like the screw on pommel that was used then, and it was not a great cutter. The scabbard it came with was total crap.
I've noticed that DSA has made a lot of changes for the better in their swords lately... and I was curious how the newer version would compare to the old?
Historical overview
From Darksword Armory's website:
"The Type XVIIIa, Two Handed Gothic Medieval sword, was very popular in Germany during the mid to late 15th century. As the Middle Ages progressed, this versatile battle ready Sword continued to evolve according to the battlefield requirements of the day. The dedicated cutting designs of the 12th and 13th century gave way to the thrusting oriented swords of the late 14th and 15th century. By the middle of the fifteenth century, This duel function sword became an assential part of the medieval Knight arsenal. The long blade, of these 15th century medieval swords were not only capable of powerful cuts, but offered exceptional advantages with their keen ability to piece through the ever developing plate armor of the day. Hence, not only did the fifteenth century longsword possess a blade profile that allowed for effective thrusting, it also retained a large measure of its earlier ancestor's cutting ability. The battle ready sword illuminates the artistic creativity of the time, resulting from the Gothic artistic revolution in the arts. The clear crisp blade and details hexagonal quillions and crisp fishtail pommel attest to this artistic revival. Swords during this period were not only exceptionally engineered, but also showed clear artistic patterns and influences from the gothic architectual structures of the time. Hence, the Two Handed Gothic medieval sword, and thus Type XVIIIa medieval battle ready swords, were not merely weapons of war, but rather beautifully crafted pieces of fine art in their own right."
Full Disclosure
Darksword Armory provided me this sword for review, I did not buy this with my own money.
I noticed that DSA was looking for some people to review some of their newer swords... and I've also seen that Darksword Armory is a topic that comes up quite often in the community lately. Since I have owned several older DSA swords, but none of the newer offerings, I thought it might be good to compare one of the new ones to the old ones and get a sense of how much improvement has been made. I mentioned to DSA which of their swords I have owned in the past, and they sent me the Two Handed Gothic to review... which is good because that was my favorite of the DSA swords I've owned.
While I was sent this sword to review free of charge... I was not asked to 'white wash' anything or given any parameters of what I could or could not say about it. DSa told me I could destroy it, be gentle with it, send it back or keep it... do whatever I wanted to it... all they asked is that I be objective and fair.
While this is the only sword I have been sent by a company to review... I have been sent other swords that were not mine from other forum members to review before.
Initial Impressions
When the sword first arrived I was a little concerned... there was some damage to the box and I was worried the sword my have been damaged.
Digging the sword out of the box tho... I could see any damage was unlikely...
The sword was cocooned in wrap... tho the ends of the cross were the least covered area and most likely to be subject to damage in shipping if packed this way. It took a good while to get it free.
I found this card inside...
On the reverse of the card is a picture description of how to tie the belt. This sword came with an integral belt suspension with its scabbed.
In all, I was surprised by the sword as a whole as it was MUCH better in quality at first glance then the old 2 Handed Gothic sword I had.
Statistics
Blade Length: 37 & 7/8ths inches
Grip Length: 7 Inches
Overall Length: 48 & 5/8ths inches
Cross Width: 8 inches
Blade Width at Base: 2 inches
Halfway: 1 & 1/4th inches
1 Inch from Tip: 1/2 inch
Weight: 3.4lbs
Comparing my own measurements to those listed on Darksword Armory's website and on Kult of Athena... the stats on the sword seem pretty consistent. This is good news, as often a swords stats can vary wildly in hand from the ad copy.
Components
The Blade
As you can see... the sharpening is pretty rough. There is a large secondary bevel, and it gets a little uneven at the tip. The blade itself it pretty nice... its polished to a higher degree then my old Gothic Two Handed sword... its more reflective. You can't see it as well in the photos, but I could see myself clearly in the blade. Hm... maybe that's NOT a good thing. :? :lol:
There is a little bit of wave in the blade... but not as much as past examples. The length and consistent profile taper make the sword very elegant looking IMO... but the rough edge detracts from this.
The blade is fairly stiff. There is flex and if held sideways it does drop a bit... but not much.
There was a bit of marking on the base of the blade, I think from the scabbard. I removed most of it... but was unable to get it all. I think with some more dedicated scrubbing and the right solvent it would come off... but its annoying.
The Guard
The blade is well fit to the guard. There is a bit of a gap, but no looseness is present at all, everything is VERY solid. The gap is cleaner then the old version to be sure. Same with the grip/guard connection. Its a simple design but goes well on this sword I think... the over all aesthetic is pleasing to me.
The Pommel
Maybe my favorite part of this sword... I'm a sucker for Fishtail pommels. Very elegant design. The machining marks are more noticeable, I think, on the pommel then the guard. This could be buffed away I think and is pretty common on swords at this price point. The 'peen' (not a traditional peen) looks good... not almost invisible like on an Albion but better then most Windlass swords I've had.
The Grip
The grip on this sword is a huge improvement over the old one. Its still a bit rustic... as you can see some lose leather from the seam and at the ends. Its leather over cord and a lot of epoxy/glue. Its very comfortable... and there were no creaks or issues over dry handling and cutting.
The Tang
Due to recent questions about symbols/markings found on Darksword Armory's tangs... I felt it was important to break apart the grip and have a look at this swords tang. Unfortunately, the heavy deposit of epoxy-goup on the tang prevented me from seeing anything. I tried to get it off, but it was dried on there and impossible to remove.
We do get a good look at the threaded pommel... DSA does a combo of threading and peening on their swords now... which is an improvement IMO over the older threaded pommels.
The tang is not overly beefy... a bit more slender then the one on the old sword... but then the sword overall is lighter and shouldn't require a huge tang. Its within reason of what you would expect for a sword of this size and weight.
The Scabbard
This is a MASSIVE improvement from the old sword. The scabbard on the old Gothic Two Handed Sword was a flimsy piece of wood covered by thin leather that was glued on. Mine fell apart. It was sad.
This scabbard feels VERY sturdy. It holds the sword well, no rattle or movement, you can tip it upside down without it coming out.. even shake it. The integrated belt works very well. The whole rig is a VAST improvement in quality and appearance over the old scabbards. The old scabbards were something of an afterthought... just something to toss your sword in. These are actually quite nice.
Handling Characteristics
The old Gothic Two Handed Sword was the best handling of Darksword Armory's older swords that I had the chance to own... by far. The new one is better. its not THAT much light then the old one... I think maybe half a pound or a little less... but with the profile tapper of this blade design the sword move so quickly and with agility. The point tracks VERY well... this is a stabber after all. The improved grip makes handing the sword much more comfortable.
Overall, the Two Handed Gothic Sword is a pleasure to swing around.
Test Cutting
As you can see... the sword performed pretty poorly as a cutter. That said, as a thrusting/stabbing sword... it was excellent. My old Gothic Two Handed Sword was also not a very good cutter... but a pretty good stabbing sword, so I was not at all surprised by this.
This style of sword is much more focused on accurate thrusting... made for stabbing the weak points in an opponents armor as it was designed at a time when Armor in Europe was becoming very difficult to defeat with a sword.
I whacked the crap out of the cutting stand at the end there to see if I could mark the blade, damage the edge of give the sword a set by beating it into wood. Darksword Armory swords have a reputation for durability after all. Now, I'm not one of the sort that recommends that sort of thing... sure, its nice to know if a blade can take a beating... but cutting branches and hacking into wood is sword-abuse to me and I don't like to do it.
The DSA came out fine tho, as I expected it would. Durability is a hallmark of the brand... my old DSA swords were very tough, and this one is as well. There was not even any scratches on the blade... not set or signs of damage.
Still... I think the sword could function as a better cutter with a better, more blended edge. The rough secondary bevel is holding this blade back IMO. I intend to find out. I've sent the sword off for some work, including a refinement of the edge. When I get it back I'll update this review and we will see if the cutting performance can be improved.
Conclusions
My main goal with this review was to compare the quality of the Two Handed Gothic Medieval Sword to its older version. In that, the new sword is a vast improvement. The scabbard and option for integrated belt is head and shoulders better then the old offering. The grip is much more comfortable and well done, if still rough in appearance. The new sword is a bit lighter and better handling, and the fit and finish is improved.
So is it a better sword, has Darksword Armory improved their products? Hell yes.
Sadly, they have also raised their prices a bit... and that puts them in a weird spot in the sword buying world. 6 years ago you found most DSA swords to be at the upper end or just over the sub 300 price point this forum focuses on. The swords were very durable... (and still are) what many like to call 'good beater' swords... and they had a large range of different sword styles to pick from. They have even more styles now.
But... this whole package is just above 500 dollars now. That puts it above most Windlass and Hanwei offerings... and right in line with current pricing for Valiant Armory. VA tends to have more refined swords and, despite the HUGE improvement to the grip and scabbard on this new Gothic Two Handed Sword, VA offers better leatherwork as well. However... Darksword Armory offers MANY more sword styles and options, they are likely more durable, and VA swords are almost always out of stock and unavailable.
The price Point would suggest that DarkSword Armory and Valiant Armory are direct competitors in this market... and I think that is true... but both have different strengths and weaknesses... and more choice is ALWAYS good for the collector/buyer... so I think Both DSA and VA will find customers in this range.
Pros
Much improved Scabbard with integrated belt option.
Famous Darksword Armory Durability seems unchanged.
Improved fit and finish, overall balance and construction of the sword.
Cons
Higher price is going to be prohibitive for some.
Leather work appears rough on grip.
Rough secondary bevel combined with long thin blade profile makes for a poor cutter.
The Bottom Line
If your looking for a thrusting/stabbing sword of this style... then this is a very decent option. If you have the ability to sharpen your own swords... its an even better option... as the sword itself is very good, but the sharpening is not too great. The Scabbard and belt are a great option not often found as a package deal.
I think the advantage this sword has over others in the market is its durability and availability. Also, while opinions and experiences may vary... I have always found that Darksword Amory's customer service to be among the best. When I have had any issues they have addressed them quickly and to my satisfaction... and that goes a long way with me in making me feel comfortable when buying a product.
So if you are in the market for this style of sword, and are aware of its cutting limitations, then I think this Two Handed Gothic Medieval Sword is a very solid sword.
I'm going to have some modifications done to this sword as well as improving, refining the edge to see if I can make it a better cutter. Check back to this review to see what can be done to this sword as a 'Project Sword'.
Thanks for Reading!