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Post by LemuelTheLemur on Jan 28, 2014 14:16:12 GMT
I was wondering if someone (*looking at Dave Kelly here :mrgreen: ) could point out a few of the most accurate saber reproductions with particular emphasis on the harmonics and handling of the sword?
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Post by MrAcheson on Jan 29, 2014 6:21:15 GMT
Look at Dave Kelly's review of the Windlass US Cavalry Association 1906 Saber. Very similar. That said he doesn't actually like the handling of the 1860 or 1906 very much compared to the French 1822s they were partially based upon.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 29, 2014 10:55:31 GMT
I thought I was the only one who had more or less memorized Dave Kelly's reviews! Because, yeah, that was pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 29, 2014 17:27:51 GMT
Asking for correct harmonics in the current modern sabre market automatically disqualifies 99% of the weapons on the market :lol: Practically every Universal Sword/Weaponedge sword has poor taper and downscaled hilts. Universal has done some contract blades for local distributors that do better. The relatively new British coffin handled light cav officer sabre of the Princess of Wale regiment 30 is exceptional. The British 1875 HorseGuards Dress sabre is a bit off in blade temper but looks stunning.
Windlass. Better temper and harmonics, but cheaply made in many cases. Their M1906 is exceptional. Their M1840 heavy cav is VG, however there has been issues with the quality of wood cores in the grips ( soft wood shrinkage that need to be glued back together ). Their US Patton sabre is VG, but the scabbards are cheapened of late. They have a large variety of Civil War sabres marketed. I haven't tried all of them. Many are under made usable cutters or wall handgers.
Cold Steel: They buy from the other forges and slap a brand and inflated price tag on them. The CS Shamshir is a classic Persian design and one of the prototypical sabres. Everybody who wants to get into sabres shoud try this one. Light, fast, little tough to master edge alignment, but a classic cutter. The M1840 is the Windlass and a VG copy, Their British 1908 is actually a distinct India Pattern, VG but if you want the British Service sword, this ISN'T it. The Austrian 1904 is as bad as the historic troop issue :lol: .
Dynasty Forge: sells to Cold Steel. Same ole problems.
Deepeeka: Stay Away
Empire Costume: Uses Weaponedge/Universal but has turned to Czech forges for better tapered weapons of late. Pricey to deal with. High end display models really.
Chevalier D'Auvergne: Only makes 2 carbon steel sabres, the rest are all stainless.
Sutler of Mount Misery: Specializes in Revolutionary War 18th Century equipment. Don't know where he gets all his wares. A couple are from USSU, some Windlass. The hunting gripped sword is VG.
United States Sword and Uniform: Handles museum and movie contracts for the most part. Only recently got to know these folks. There is a British P1853 in the works that should arrive in February. Will let you know.
I've probably left out somebody's favorite. I did a quick tour of what I still own and this is what I came up with off the cuff. I wouldn't let historicity stand in the way of buying any particular sword that strikes your fancy. Just stay away from the real stuff; that will almost always result in disappointing you about the replica you bought.
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Post by LemuelTheLemur on Jan 29, 2014 18:45:01 GMT
thanks for the thorough reply Dave! I quite like the M1906, but I'm also rather taken by the German M1852/79 Sabre you just reviewed.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 29, 2014 19:09:24 GMT
The 1906 is exceptionally well made, but I don't like the handling all that much ( the fault is the historical Ames sword itself).
The German is just opposite in effect. Inspite of the unusually small size hilt it has excellent handling characteristics for a cutter.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 30, 2014 22:08:12 GMT
I will not state that this: en.empirecostume.com/napoleonic- ... -a1145.htm is the most accurate repro on the market, but it just might come close. I ordered the standard Universal Dragoon from Armae, same as the one from KOA. When I got it, the blade was bend. I wanted to use the blade for a project, so I send it right back and got a full refund. Before I send it back I handled it and it turned out to be a lump. No distal taper at all, a blade a la baseball bat, a POB far over the horizon, wavy fullers, file marks on the brass, too thick brass, fittings upside down and so on. With the refund in hand I orderd from Empire Costume and got the Dragoon in 3 days. World of difference! Blade with taper and flex, fullers straight and better defined, thinner and almost flawless hilt. I liked it so much that I did not want to cannibalise it, no way. I am not saying this sword is 100% like the authentic ones, I never handled one, but I think it comes very close. It is a pleasure to wield, certainly for a Dragoon, as it was not designed for sword play. The Universal one did not want to be wielded at all. As I said, a dead lump. As a nice extra the numbers on the bar of the hilt are individual, no two numbers are the same!
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 1, 2014 0:17:35 GMT
Pinotte told me about buying one of the EC Czech made Dragoon some time ago. Had much the same reaction as yourself as to how much livelier it is than the Jodpuhr tupes. I really have no need to go back and try one, but two such reviews are encouraging. Most people who talk sabre aren't looking for heavy cavalry pallasches, so I don't think to mention them in aggregate with curved blades.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 1, 2014 3:50:42 GMT
It is a pity I cannot go out and test the Empire blades, but my guess is that the temper is okay. Afterall the Czech arms industry is very, very, old and very good, famous even. Also Mr. Guinhut does not strike me as a man who does things by half. I think they are much more than just display pieces and it is Mr. Guinhuts lawyer insisting to play that side of things down a bit. Downer for those living overseas is the shipping fee and maybe Customs clearance too. On the other hand Guinhut is right between expensive custom / extensive rework and Universal et all and his blued and gilded blades are top notch and not to get anywhere else that I know of. As far as the Pallash is concerned, it is funny it tends to slip from the attention when talking sabers. Remember the day before yesterday, I could not even remember its name? ( begins with a P, from somewhere East!) Kilted Cossack, may the lord of the steppe bless him, had to help me out! Could it be too medival looking for some and as such not recognised as sabre cq Cavalry weapon? Or is it a niche within a niche, a so small terrain most people overlook it? Whatever, it is a shame, because it did great in its time, I think and if one wants a beautifully mean looking, doing the business and then some, kind of blade , this is it.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 1, 2014 5:12:09 GMT
The heredity and function of the heavy Cavalry Sword vs the Sabre is a bit beyond the subject of the thread. The pallasch is the descendent of the Estoc; the thrusting hand lance of the 17th and 18th Cent. Heavier and longer to reach out and strike the oncoming opponent and to the hand balanced to guide the point to the target. And ironically before the lights went dark on the age of bright blades the major European powers mostly armed their last cavaliers with....pallasch! top to bottom: 1. The French M1853 Dragoon - direct descendent of the Napoleonic AN XIII. 2. The Prussian M1852 Kurrassier - Prussians had been using captured French AN XIIIs since 1813. 3. The Swedish M1893 - humungous and totally unmanageable. Still think George Patton was inspired by the British 1908. The Olympic games of 1912, in which Patton participated, was hosted in...wait for it... Stockholm. 4. The French M1896 - The Art Deco straight sword. This is the 35 in version; there was also a 37.5 large. 5. The Spanish 1907 Peurto Seguro. Only 35 inches but familiar family resemblence to french blades. ( This sword is completely painted in tropical gold paint. I sprayed it down with silicon that penetrated and blistered the paint. :oops: Hard lesson learned. Sword only cost $150.00 but it is still an historic artifact. ) 6. British P1908 Enlisted Cav Sword. Radical Estoc blade. Ballistic Guard. 7. US M1913 Cav Sabre "The Patton" Yup, Lt G Patton really did design and push thru acceptence of his sword. Never saw action, but a truly beautiful and effective longsword/rapier.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 1, 2014 6:29:33 GMT
Thanks Dave. Really nice of you to post that picture and give us some background on the various 19th. century models. Cheers, Ulahn.
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