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Post by etiennehamel on Nov 17, 2013 0:37:27 GMT
ok so since my design thread was evolving to a big discussion thread about dao i thought i would make one so it would be beneficial to discussion (somehow?)so i'll repost the picture and Lord Cobol now we'll be able to discuss it further   so we talked about the issue of the welded ring pommel on my design thread... i remember seeing how it could have been made and it is not out of place, from what i've seen from antiques there are at least three ways of doing it, you can see one here under the wrap which is pretty much a ''bar'' bent to form a circle and forged in place (or welded for today's way of making it) i186.photobucket.com/albums/x130 ... C00258.jpg this one is pretty much like a ring welded to the tang but forged welded to place (i think...) i186.photobucket.com/albums/x130 ... C00264.jpg |
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Post by Lord Cobol on Nov 17, 2013 2:30:58 GMT
I'm running low on things to say, but...
Dadao reviews I've seen showed welded tangs. But the Condor is not -- it is one piece with the tang and I guess they just cut the ring shape when they cut the blade & tang profile. I'm no metal-work expert (actually not even a beginner, just a nothing) but that seems like a good way to do it.
I *guess* that the blanks they start from in China now aren't long enough to have a tang that wraps around to form a ring (?). Maybe they are long enough to cut the ring like Condor did if blade isn't too long(?)
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Post by etiennehamel on Nov 17, 2013 3:43:28 GMT
problem with the condor construction is the guard, if the ring was made like the condor you couldn't put a guard on it unless you want your guard to go back and forth hence the need for the separate ring
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 17, 2013 4:13:21 GMT
There's a page in "Iron and Steel Swords of China" with assorted ring-pommel dao. A couple there are not too different from your designs, and both of your guards are used. (There are a few others elsewhere in the book as well.)
Han and Song ring-pommel dao usually have a separate ring, with the end of the tang flattened and then folded over the ring. I don't know if the ring is welded closed first, because the join lies under the folded tang (I assume).
The only Ming example I've seen has the end of the tang forged into a long rod, which is then bent into a loop. This seems to be the usual Qing construction as well. Often, the end of the loop is left free, not welded onto the rest of the tang. Perhaps this is so that it's easier to unroll the loop, in case one wants to change the guard.
I would not be surprised if most of the ones with separate welded on rings (such as you showed) are end-of-19th century or Republican.
If you want an integral ring, you can always make a two-piece guard and rivet it in place. The historical technique, which I see on the S-guards, appears to be to make the guard with a long, wide slot. The guards might start off as two pieces, with the ends forge-welded together, and a wide slot left in the middle. These will fit over the ring. They are placed on the blade just past the tang, not on the tang itself, and flattened, and secured by a rivet through the base of the blade.
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Post by etiennehamel on Nov 17, 2013 5:18:44 GMT
any forges ideas to start getting pricing?
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Post by etiennehamel on Nov 21, 2013 15:51:03 GMT
any reviews of sinoswords niu wei dao? i can't find any...
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Post by Turok on Mar 16, 2014 7:25:20 GMT
Sorry for a late reply this part of the forum is kinda slow sometimes :roll: I was just looking through the old threads and I really like the design you made. It reminds me of a pair of antique knives I saw in a museum once. Any thoughts on how long this sword is going to be and what the scabbard will look like? Have you checked Jinshi Swords? They're also based in Canada. Good luck with your project etiennehamel! As for Sinoswords, there's this review viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19498I would avoid their Sinoswords Chinese line if I were you! |
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Post by etiennehamel on Mar 17, 2014 21:48:40 GMT
thanks Turok, i was playing with the idea of putting something in the lines of 26-27'' blade, the particularity of that design is that the tang is thick and the ring is an extension of the tang, under the wrap i planned the handle to be two scales of wood riveted to the tang (it is definitely full tang and there would be no thin tang at the handle  ) i thought about st-sword too for the sword and the scabbard would probably be a simple leather one like the hanwei military dadao's. the blade would either be full polished or covered in forge scale with only the edge polished. i asked sinosword and they gave me a relatively low price like about 203$ shipped without a scabbard i might ask st-swords to see how much they would be... |
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Post by Turok on Mar 18, 2014 7:01:57 GMT
Sounds great! A 26 to 27" blade and a simple leather scabbard is historically accurate for a nuiweidao. Also want kind of steel are you planning? Fellow member, FoxKhan, had his custom dao done with T-10 steel and apparently it wasn't properly heat-treated. From what I understand Chinese smiths use different T-10 steel standards.
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Post by etiennehamel on Mar 18, 2014 16:38:07 GMT
9260 probably, TH too. i'm not certain who i will take for making it too, i'm a little afraid of sinosword to be honest, i'll probably try to get in touch with a forge through a seller of good reputation.
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