Condor Dynasty Dadao
Nov 1, 2013 4:29:02 GMT
Post by Lord Cobol on Nov 1, 2013 4:29:02 GMT
Intro - why this sword:
My main interest is Chinese & Korean swords. The dadao seems like the one form factor best designed to scare the bleep out of anyone who needs it. So I've wanted one for a while but had trouble deciding which one. When this puppy came out I started checking ... and couldn't help discovering that on-line prices vary from $77.95 up to $120.95, and that it was usually out of stock.
Cheapest was at www2.knifecenter.com/ and they NEVER had it in stock.
I held off over a year, partly because of the price but also because I thought the dark-colored blade and the handguard design in the marketing pics looked ugly.
Then this appeared here
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18862
showing a shinier, nicer finish; and within a few weeks knifecenter finally had it in stock for the best price I have seen. And they also have cheap shipping. My fate was sealed.
Historical Overview:
Most of the marketing on dadaos talks about their use in WW2. But Wikipedia says "However, the dadao was also commonly used by executioners for beheadings." Makes sense to me. This form factor looks like it would do the job. FWIW, Korean historical dramas always show executioners using fancied-up dadao for beheadings. The back of the blade might be scalloped, but the parts that directly interface with hands & necks are pure dadao.
Full disclosure:
I have no connection with either condor or knifecenter. First time customer of both.
Initial impressions:
The shipping box was narrow and barely long enough for the sword. Sword came wrapped in paper inside a little plastic bag/sheath with the leather scabbard beside it. The box would not be long enough to hold the sword in the scabbard.
Opening it up: all OK; no damage. It looks like I expected from other reviews. A simple design like this is hard to screw up.
Stats:
1075, TH.
Condor says the blade is 6mm thick; the site I bought it from says 1/4 inch; KoA says 5.7mm - 4mm. I measure slightly under 6mm in the tang back in the handle, 5mm at the base of the actual blade, and 3mm at the back corner near the tip.
Blade is officially 21 1/4". That's from the end of the handle. From the end of the guard it's more like 19 1/2. I wish more companies would list separate handle/guard/blade lengths.
Point of balance is a bit over 2" from the guard, 3.5 if you want to measure from the end of the wood handle. KoA says ' 4 lb 7/8" '. Besides the typo "lb", mine doesn't balance there even.
Weight: Condor says 3.4 lb. KoA says 3.9 lb. Maybe they got one with less distal taper - that would account for the weight and the P.O.B.
Grip length: 9". Overall 32.
Components:
Blade:
Has a nice convex edge, paper-slicing sharp over most of its length. The first inch isn't sharpened and a few inches after that that are "sharpened" but not *sharp*. A friend who has some barber-shop experience and likes to test edges with his thumb says there is one spot farther out that does not feel right, but it still slices paper.
The blade makes a nice "ting" sound.
The double fullers are not even - shallower in the middle than at either end. Not exactly the same on each side; not perfect on either. That's the only real defect anywhere, and it is hard to get excited about something that people complain about in reviews swords that cost much more.
The edge before any cutting (same magnification as my recent grit comparison over in the "repair" section).
Handle:
Looks like it might be a bit slippery under bad conditions (but it hasn't been slippery on me yet).
This is the really full "full tang" - two pieces of wood attached to it with the sides of the tang showing. Looks sturdy. I've seen this approach elsewhere -- Windlass Qama, some tactical katanas, custom swords,etc.
But I worry about rust with this approach. You can't avoid getting palm prints on the tang and maybe getting it sweaty, and oil there to prevent rust would make the handle slippery.
I tentatively plan to wax the sides of the tang and then wrap the handle in something.
What does the rest of the world do to stop rust on handles like this???
I like the look of the wood handle, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if they hid the sides of the tang inside a handle of some manmade material like Cold Steel's polypropylene.
Guard: The insides of the two litle holes and the curly-cues will be hard to rust-treat. The necks of the curly-qs are too small for q-tips. I'd rate this as a minor design flaw. I don't love the look of it either - would have prefered a simpler design like just a half-circle with rounded corners. I guess I may try to plug those spots with something -- haven't decided what.
Pommel:
I love the ring pommel because it means I can store the sword by hanging it somewhere. It is one piece with the tang, not welded, which seems not to be the case with some dadaos.
Scabbard:
Because the blade is so wide near the tip, it opens from the back with 2 flaps to hold it closed. This seems pretty standard with dadaos.
It is leather, which makes me worry about rust. I've read lots of different opinions about leather scabbards & rust, and about leather treatment in general, like:
- don't store in leather; chemicals from tanning will cause rust
- it's ok if the leather is tanned the right way
- no, its bad no matter how tanned because leather traps moisture and causes rust
- it's ok if you treat the leather with neatsfoot oil
- you can use veggie oil or mineral oil instead
- no, it has to be neatsfoot; veggie oil goes rancid and mineral oil rots the stitching
Does anyone know how Condor's leather is tanned ?? Should it be a problem ??
I know what neatsfoot oil is, but I still can't get rid of the mental image of lots of poor little neats hobbling around on their stumps.
I plan bypass the issue: store the blade in the plastic sheath or hanging in open air, and use the leather scabbard only when I want to impress people with how it looks. Treating the leather to make it rust-safe is an option but not a priority.
Handling:
I'm unskilled & untrained, so..... I have the impression that a dadao is supposed to handle like a crowbar. That's pretty much what it does and I'm fine with it.
Test cutting:
Tested it on cardboard tubes. It completely beats my Cold Steel 2-hand katana and edges out my 2-hand Kris Cutlerly Korean Sword IIIb. Seems there may be merit to the commments on cross-sectional density in this article
www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... s-a-Primer
There are scuffs on the blade but nothing major. A DH blade that was used on similar tubes got more scuffs. I guess one advantage of thru-hardening is that the area behind the edge is harder and won't scratch as much as the soft part of DH (?).
The tubes in question have thick walls. Not like cutting a piece of cake.
A friend could get 6 cuts on one tube, alternating forehand & backhand. This is harder than you might think because a poor cut makes the tube bend at the base and then it gets really hard to cut. We never got more than 4 with any other blade, and the cuts with the Condor are smoother.
Once he cut too low and went almost through the 3/4" dowel that the tubes were mounted on. There was a tube around it so this is more of an achievement than it looks.
And yes, he is still a friend.
For affordable 2-hand cutting, it seems like a winner.
Conclusions & comparisons:
Pretty good, especially for the price. I wish they would redesign the guard.
Compared to my Cold Steel 2-handed katana machete, this costs about twice as much, has a MUCH better edge, and cuts better. But I like the CS scabbard more. Compared to my KC Korean sword, it costs about 1/4 as much and cuts better, but the KC wins on looks and ease of maintenance.
Compared to other dadaos, like Hanwei, Cold Steel, and custom Sinosword: those cost more but the handles & guards should cause less rust concern. Most have leather handles & scabbards and should look more WW2 authenic, if that's your thing. The Hanwei Warlord has a cordura scabbard, which should be safer to store it in. For almost twice the price, it's probably the one I would have gotten if the Condor didn't exist.
Then there is the new Cold Steel All Terrain Chopper. I suspect that is CS's attempt to answer the Condor. The CS seems like the really poor man's dadao, which would make the Condor the lower-middle-class dadao.
Pros:
+ sturdy
+ cuts well
+ affordable
Cons:
- uneven fullers
- concerns about storing in the leather scabbard
- concerns about rust-proofing the handle & guard
Bottom line: Recommended. Good budget beater anyone who isn't committed to Japanese or European swords.
My main interest is Chinese & Korean swords. The dadao seems like the one form factor best designed to scare the bleep out of anyone who needs it. So I've wanted one for a while but had trouble deciding which one. When this puppy came out I started checking ... and couldn't help discovering that on-line prices vary from $77.95 up to $120.95, and that it was usually out of stock.
Cheapest was at www2.knifecenter.com/ and they NEVER had it in stock.
I held off over a year, partly because of the price but also because I thought the dark-colored blade and the handguard design in the marketing pics looked ugly.
Then this appeared here
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18862
showing a shinier, nicer finish; and within a few weeks knifecenter finally had it in stock for the best price I have seen. And they also have cheap shipping. My fate was sealed.
Historical Overview:
Most of the marketing on dadaos talks about their use in WW2. But Wikipedia says "However, the dadao was also commonly used by executioners for beheadings." Makes sense to me. This form factor looks like it would do the job. FWIW, Korean historical dramas always show executioners using fancied-up dadao for beheadings. The back of the blade might be scalloped, but the parts that directly interface with hands & necks are pure dadao.
Full disclosure:
I have no connection with either condor or knifecenter. First time customer of both.
Initial impressions:
The shipping box was narrow and barely long enough for the sword. Sword came wrapped in paper inside a little plastic bag/sheath with the leather scabbard beside it. The box would not be long enough to hold the sword in the scabbard.
Opening it up: all OK; no damage. It looks like I expected from other reviews. A simple design like this is hard to screw up.
Stats:
1075, TH.
Condor says the blade is 6mm thick; the site I bought it from says 1/4 inch; KoA says 5.7mm - 4mm. I measure slightly under 6mm in the tang back in the handle, 5mm at the base of the actual blade, and 3mm at the back corner near the tip.
Blade is officially 21 1/4". That's from the end of the handle. From the end of the guard it's more like 19 1/2. I wish more companies would list separate handle/guard/blade lengths.
Point of balance is a bit over 2" from the guard, 3.5 if you want to measure from the end of the wood handle. KoA says ' 4 lb 7/8" '. Besides the typo "lb", mine doesn't balance there even.
Weight: Condor says 3.4 lb. KoA says 3.9 lb. Maybe they got one with less distal taper - that would account for the weight and the P.O.B.
Grip length: 9". Overall 32.
Components:
Blade:
Has a nice convex edge, paper-slicing sharp over most of its length. The first inch isn't sharpened and a few inches after that that are "sharpened" but not *sharp*. A friend who has some barber-shop experience and likes to test edges with his thumb says there is one spot farther out that does not feel right, but it still slices paper.
The blade makes a nice "ting" sound.
The double fullers are not even - shallower in the middle than at either end. Not exactly the same on each side; not perfect on either. That's the only real defect anywhere, and it is hard to get excited about something that people complain about in reviews swords that cost much more.
The edge before any cutting (same magnification as my recent grit comparison over in the "repair" section).
Handle:
Looks like it might be a bit slippery under bad conditions (but it hasn't been slippery on me yet).
This is the really full "full tang" - two pieces of wood attached to it with the sides of the tang showing. Looks sturdy. I've seen this approach elsewhere -- Windlass Qama, some tactical katanas, custom swords,etc.
But I worry about rust with this approach. You can't avoid getting palm prints on the tang and maybe getting it sweaty, and oil there to prevent rust would make the handle slippery.
I tentatively plan to wax the sides of the tang and then wrap the handle in something.
What does the rest of the world do to stop rust on handles like this???
I like the look of the wood handle, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if they hid the sides of the tang inside a handle of some manmade material like Cold Steel's polypropylene.
Guard: The insides of the two litle holes and the curly-cues will be hard to rust-treat. The necks of the curly-qs are too small for q-tips. I'd rate this as a minor design flaw. I don't love the look of it either - would have prefered a simpler design like just a half-circle with rounded corners. I guess I may try to plug those spots with something -- haven't decided what.
Pommel:
I love the ring pommel because it means I can store the sword by hanging it somewhere. It is one piece with the tang, not welded, which seems not to be the case with some dadaos.
Scabbard:
Because the blade is so wide near the tip, it opens from the back with 2 flaps to hold it closed. This seems pretty standard with dadaos.
It is leather, which makes me worry about rust. I've read lots of different opinions about leather scabbards & rust, and about leather treatment in general, like:
- don't store in leather; chemicals from tanning will cause rust
- it's ok if the leather is tanned the right way
- no, its bad no matter how tanned because leather traps moisture and causes rust
- it's ok if you treat the leather with neatsfoot oil
- you can use veggie oil or mineral oil instead
- no, it has to be neatsfoot; veggie oil goes rancid and mineral oil rots the stitching
Does anyone know how Condor's leather is tanned ?? Should it be a problem ??
I know what neatsfoot oil is, but I still can't get rid of the mental image of lots of poor little neats hobbling around on their stumps.
I plan bypass the issue: store the blade in the plastic sheath or hanging in open air, and use the leather scabbard only when I want to impress people with how it looks. Treating the leather to make it rust-safe is an option but not a priority.
Handling:
I'm unskilled & untrained, so..... I have the impression that a dadao is supposed to handle like a crowbar. That's pretty much what it does and I'm fine with it.
Test cutting:
Tested it on cardboard tubes. It completely beats my Cold Steel 2-hand katana and edges out my 2-hand Kris Cutlerly Korean Sword IIIb. Seems there may be merit to the commments on cross-sectional density in this article
www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... s-a-Primer
There are scuffs on the blade but nothing major. A DH blade that was used on similar tubes got more scuffs. I guess one advantage of thru-hardening is that the area behind the edge is harder and won't scratch as much as the soft part of DH (?).
The tubes in question have thick walls. Not like cutting a piece of cake.
A friend could get 6 cuts on one tube, alternating forehand & backhand. This is harder than you might think because a poor cut makes the tube bend at the base and then it gets really hard to cut. We never got more than 4 with any other blade, and the cuts with the Condor are smoother.
Once he cut too low and went almost through the 3/4" dowel that the tubes were mounted on. There was a tube around it so this is more of an achievement than it looks.
And yes, he is still a friend.
For affordable 2-hand cutting, it seems like a winner.
Conclusions & comparisons:
Pretty good, especially for the price. I wish they would redesign the guard.
Compared to my Cold Steel 2-handed katana machete, this costs about twice as much, has a MUCH better edge, and cuts better. But I like the CS scabbard more. Compared to my KC Korean sword, it costs about 1/4 as much and cuts better, but the KC wins on looks and ease of maintenance.
Compared to other dadaos, like Hanwei, Cold Steel, and custom Sinosword: those cost more but the handles & guards should cause less rust concern. Most have leather handles & scabbards and should look more WW2 authenic, if that's your thing. The Hanwei Warlord has a cordura scabbard, which should be safer to store it in. For almost twice the price, it's probably the one I would have gotten if the Condor didn't exist.
Then there is the new Cold Steel All Terrain Chopper. I suspect that is CS's attempt to answer the Condor. The CS seems like the really poor man's dadao, which would make the Condor the lower-middle-class dadao.
Pros:
+ sturdy
+ cuts well
+ affordable
Cons:
- uneven fullers
- concerns about storing in the leather scabbard
- concerns about rust-proofing the handle & guard
Bottom line: Recommended. Good budget beater anyone who isn't committed to Japanese or European swords.