Which Confederate Sabre?

I like your choice in sabers in that they are not overly curved. I like sabers with only a slight curve. At about $80... what the hell. I like the way the windlass one looks better.

I'll give you some things to think about in case you ever decide to go more expensive. Don't take this to mean that you should go more expensive. I'll take a decent cheap sword over an expensive name-brand any day.

From my recollection of American History the north and south used almost the same weapons. So I would be cautious about buying into claims of "confederate" swords. Often that is a matter of just putting some gray color or bars & strips on the hilt or scabbard. Not exactly historical just a tourist souvenir.

A lot of the the war materials the South used were in their possession before the war started and were obtained from Northern industry prior to the war. Much of it was also taken from the North in battles were the south was victorious... or supply lines were intercepted. The south imported some war goods from Britain that included some excellent muskets. Perhaps any sword obtained from Britain could be considered "confederate" since these would be different from Northern swords.

Just because a specific Confederate Officer is pictured with a specific sword does not mean it was made in the South and Union officers did not carry it as well. Almost all confederate commanders served in the union army prior to the war.

I am sure a few swords were forged locally too in the South. You might want to research this further to see if they had any defining characteristics. I would not just assume that Hanwei or Windlass did that already.

Confederate swords are a field unto themselves. I do not have a lot of knowledge of this area of study, but if you are interested in Confederate weapons, reproductions are going to be the only affordable alternative for many. Originals in poor condition will set one back several thousand dollars.

Hotspur has a Windlass (Confederate) College Hill Arsenal saber and can speak to its quality. As he has mentioned in previous threads, the sabers are functional but tend to be overweight compared with originals, mainly due to lack of distal taper.

I will try to dig up some links on American Civil War era swords. In the mean time, here are a few dealer links that will provide useful images:

www.relicman.com
www.civilwarpreservations.com

And a links page:

www.civilwardealers.com/edgedweapons.htm

I am sure Hotspur will chime in once he sees this thread!


ADDED:
Hotspur discusses his sword here: /index.cgi?board=military&action=display&thread=1204505354&page=2

Jonathan,

I'm going to poke you with something if you keep spilling the beans of secret dealer sites with the good stuff Just kidding but I want everybody to keep in mind that all that inventory at all the dealers you come across in mine dammit.

At least if you are amongst the ones raiding these sites after mention on forums, let us know what you adopted.

Cheers

Hotspur; nothing like two yankee vultures bickering over carrion finds ;D

Hello,
The other posters are correct in that while the Confederates did copy the official U.S. cavarly sabre of the day, they had a myriad of makers, contractors, importers, etc, so therefore there is a myriad of types and styles of Confederate sabres and swords out there.

But as far as Museum Replicas, Ltd., and others go, I have both the U.S. and the Confederate Lt. Cav. sabres from Museum Replicas, Ltd. , in fact have ordered four of the U.S. ones, three of which I gave away as gifts. So now all I have is one Confederate one and one U.S. one from MRL. Both are surprisingly great, well made sabres for the price (under 100 bucks). They are well tempered and well made. I have held, handled, and practiced with my U.S. one until a spot is wearing through the leather grip covering between the wire wrapping. The wire has never come loose and the handle is just as tight as when I bought it a couple of years ago (Check the reviews section where I posted a review of it and also a comparison with it and an original 1860 Lt Cav sabre made under contract by Henry Boker of Germany).

I also have one of Cold Steel's U.S. Hvy Cav sabres. In my opinion the MRL sabres are better than Cold Steel's as far as construction, handle tightness, etc, goes! I bought the $300.00 Colt Steel Hvy Cav Sabre around the same time as I got my MRL sabre. While the Cold Steel sabre is a beautiful, well balanced sabre, it had a dip in the blade's edge as if someone ground a bit too hard or too much in that spot when they sharpened it. Then the guts of the scabbard came out so that the sword just fell out of the scabbard. It was a strip of plastic glued to the inside walls of the scabbard with a small square piece of something with an adhesive on it. It all came out too. What a cheap way to hold a sword in its scabbard. So I had to send it back for those reasons. I got the replacement back, which I believe is the same sabre but just that someone just ground down a bit to level the spot out in the blade. And within no time, with minimal handling, the handle is slightly loose! When you shake it you can feel and hear the slight clicking the handle makes due to it being a tiny bit loose. By my MRL ones are still just as tight as when new, with extensive handling.

So that $300.00 Cold Steel sabre just sits there unused and unloved. My "under $100.00" MRL sabre, which has been handled, practiced, and used so much that the leather is wearing thin in one spot has never loosened or given me one iota of thouble. I love that sabre and it feels at home in my hand. I would advise you get the MRL one. As for the temper, etc, I have tested it considerably and it sprang right back in place.

Some one posted saying the MRL U.S. Lt cav sabre was actually the 1842 Heavy Sabre. I disagree. The Cold Steel seems to be a cross between the heavy and light sabres. But the MRL Lt Cav sabre is an accurate reproduction other than the blade thickness, as the other poster pointed out. The original I compared it with was thicker at the handle, getting thinner as it went towards the point (distal taper I think it is). Where as the original is thicker at the handle and thins out as it goes to the point, the MRL is the same width from handle to not far from point (the MRl's thickness at guard is the same as the original is at middle of the blade), then thins on to the point (see my review and comparison). It and the MRL are the same from about 1/12' from the point on to close to the point. But again, the original thins even more about the last eight inches than the MRL repro. I ground the MRL one down those last eight or so inches so that the distal taper there closely matches the original which improved its balance a bit, which was not bad anyway.

If you look in the MRL catolog you will see the Officers' model sabre. If you look closely at the pics, its blade is wider and the handle is offset more or less, I forgot which. From what I can tell from the pics it appears to me that the Officers model is actually an Officicers' model of the 1842 Hvy Cav sabre while the 1860 Lt. Cav. sabre is what it is supposed to be. I might be wrong and I am no expert, but that is what it appears to me to be the case.
Later,
Freebooter,
Alabama

Just placed an order for the Windlass 500646 Confederate sabre with Swords of Honor. I'll let you know what I think when it comes in.

Tampa, Florida. Got the sword yesterday. I'll give more details when I have a chance, but first impression was a disapointment. The hilt wrap is obviously plastic, not leather as advertised. It also has a big ugly 'INDIA' on the blade. I also paid extra for sharpening which did not happen......

Sorry to hear it is not as expected but I have tried to point out that there are several tiers of quality regarding the reproduction ACW stuff. I know the Windlass pictures are hard to find in larger sizes but By The Sword has blow ups. Compare the iimages of that Windlass offering to what sells for a little more at such vendors as Legendary Arms and other sutlers
www.legendaryarms.com/conswor.html

If one looks at the various sutler sites like Blockade Runner
www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg8.htm

You'll see the economy swords listed with those of better quality. It really does become a matter of quality comensurate with cost. While there are inexpensive versions of most common types like the artillery shortswords, NCO and cavalry sabres, taking a good long look at expectations and what is out there makes a bit of sense. I can understand the appeal of budget prices being a draw but there is often a reason for that. Even the sabre I payed a pretty hefty premium price of $179 for is far from perfect when compared to historical pieces but is quite sound. It was not a sharp and I continue to work on that but it is a nice thing to have for play. I was a bit miffed once in hand but had taken a good bit into consideration before the purchase and knew I wasn't going to be overwhelmed even at that price tag.

I would definitely touch base with the retailer and at least get a refund for the sharpening, if not return the sword for refund/credit. Maybe there is something else they offer that might see the money better spent.

Cheers

Hotspur; I'm afraid I will always view sub $100 reproductions with more trepidation than what may often seem a worse deal at twice the cost

Pardon if I seem a little frustrated with my comments that follow. I have tried time and again to present the fact that Windlass doesn't make every sword coming from India, let alone everything they sell directly. I think it may be difficult to find a thread here discussing imports from India where I am not basically saying the same things over and over..

Although Jonathan pronounced my College Hill Arsenal sabre a Windlass product, I certainly never have. I have no idea what the steel is, relative hardness, nor whether 16 elephants could cross a small chasm by treading the length of the blade. I do know I had been looking at the India import sabres for a good many years and tried to make a purchase that made sense to me after a good bit of pondering and research (window shopping) The sword has taken an edge, cuts more or less divinely and I am overall satisfied with my purchase. Note that this College Hill Arsenal sabre is listed at both Blockade Runner and Legendary Arms. Also note the lack of the word Windlass at either website.

Are these swords made in India? I believe so. Is Windlass responible? I doubt it or the ad copy would likely indicate that. I see non of these specific swords listed at Atlanta Cutlery but what do I know anyway? There are similar swords listed at Atlanta Cutlery but imo, not the same. The one exception might be the NCO sword but I would want to have both the Windlass and the more expensive sword in hand to say they are equal and absolutely no diifference. Call me a skeptic about that I cannot specifically verify. I do know that more than curasory examination of ad copy and photographs leads me to believe the swords at Legendary arms are not the same swords sold by Windlass and cranked out at more than a few shops in India.

I bought my sabre through Blockage Runner and included that link here because they sell a $69 cavalry sabre and its $129 counterpart. I have presented that and the Legendary Arms links as examples of wht else is out there. I have also sugessted looking to other sutlers that sell goods for re-enactment for similar comparisons and vendor descriptions.

I have offered up the name India Mart to look at what is going on but find myself unable to sit with each and everyone watching the market to explain why they should do some legwork if really interested in learning where these swords are coming from.

I guess it would all be so much easier to say warn folk that nothing from a high volume retail source is going to be satisfactory or provide any value for money spent.

I certainly would type a lot less.

At some point, those that are interested are going to make a purchase based on their own decisions. I do appreciate Scott's feelings and look forward to further evaluation of his buy from him.
He may well come to a different conclusion after more time and decide it is a decent sword for the money spent. I believe I tried to express grand expectations at that price range were not very realistic. I have gone further and explained I wasn't wowed by a $179 sword either but I had no expectation it would exceed my wlldest dreams in providing an unbeatable value.

If I was looking to buy a reproduction cavalry sabre representing the ACW, the two links provided represent where I would shop.
I guess I could have pretty much left it at that. If accuracy and aesthetic are important; Generally speaking, the more one spends, the better the value. Study of originals will point out why some may cost more than others.

Cheers

Hotspur; sorry, not my dime anymore but I have tried to be helpful in my repeated suggestions

It is all my fault.

I am sorry if at some point I said that your sword was a Windlass, Glen. I probably just thought that is what you told me last September when I handled it. You obviously didn't!