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Post by shawn211 on Jul 21, 2013 22:50:32 GMT
Seriously considering a future purchase from Bugei. Just need some info: on blade length and habaki measurements.... As I understand it, the measure their blade length from the top of the kisaki. What I am wondering is.... how tall the kisaki actually is, and if your blade is exclusively measured from this point or does it include the kisaki? Why I ask is that I am, 6'5" & when I was training in Muso Shinden I was using a 2-6.5 masamune styled iaito. Just trying to get an idea of which katana(s) to consider. All I have to work with to approximate draw length is my Bujin boken. Been everywhere out there and always come back to either the Bamboo, or the Wave... Any feedback will be appreciated... Thanx to all.
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Post by shawn211 on Jul 21, 2013 22:56:49 GMT
Now I know some of you will try to steer me to consider the possibility of another vendor of swords... But after all the searching, I always come right back to Bugei. Thanks again; & I look forward to feedback.....
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 21, 2013 23:04:22 GMT
I think you may be confused The kissake is the point end of the katana. The habaki is the collar just in front of the tsuba(handguard),measurement will start from here.Some vendors measure from tsuba,some meaure from the end of the habaki.Technically,the blade length should start from end/top of habaki,since that is the blade.But many include habaki in the measurement,not sure about Bugei. I think their habaki will measure somewhere between1 and 1&1/4 inches. And welcome to the forum.
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Post by shawn211 on Jul 21, 2013 23:24:03 GMT
Thank you Johnwalter. Standing corrected.. In my defense; it can be rather difficult to keep up with my boy (6 yrs. old) and it has been a busy weekend... I will try to be more precise in my terminology and nomenclature..... Thanks again..
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 22, 2013 0:20:36 GMT
No problem Shawn,I remember how my son was at that age,I understand,lol!
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Post by Timberwolf on Jul 22, 2013 3:36:56 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Shawn! I don't own a Bugei (yet), but their measuring system follows the most common one, they measure the nagasa from the tip of the kissaki TO the habaki. That leaves anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/4" more to the tsuba. I go with the average. Since you're already familiar with the Bugei line, given your height, you'd probably be wanting the 11" tsuka and 29.5" nagasa on the Bamboo. That might be a short tsuka and blade combination for you, though. Damn, you're a tall dude! Oh, I'm going to guess that you know better than to buy a kat with an overly long tsuka. Right? For the extra $280 in the base prices, the Wave offers you MANY more options. I really think you should go with that kat, if only for that reason. Getting a proper fit will not only make everything flow and handle more easily for you, but it's just the right thing to do! Especially if you're spending $1800+ to get that kat to your door! (I stole these measuring methods from Bluntsword, I believe. He has a thread about this. Thanks, bro! ) So. Let's look at your tsuka first. OK, I don't know what size your hands are in reference to your frame. Some say that's not as important as the overall ulna/radius length, including the elbow joint. I can see the logic in both ways to figure this, but in the end, they only vary by a bit, if at all. Try them both: Elbow on the table, fingers pointed up. Measure from the table to the base of your hand, the center joint 'tween your wrist and palm. That's your tsuka length. Grab a ruler with the standard opposing 2 handed grip, but allow for a generous 2 finger widths between your hands. That's your tsuka length, as well! :lol: I figure that if there is any substantial difference, split that difference. It's an optimal measure anyway, and you'll wind up fudging it in reality in most cases. For the nagasa, grab a yardstick or your tape measure, and hold either like your kat, pointed straight down and touching the floor. Shake out your neck and shoulders, then stand at attention, while letting your measuring device slide up and down easily in your hand. When your shoulders are square, grab the yardstick with your hand at the 45* or so grip that will be naturally occurring anyway. Hold that booger right there and look at the measure to your index knuckle. Subtract 2", that is your nagasa length. That should leave you with just enough clearance to be 1/2" above the floor when you're slinging chunks and goo off of your blade from the politician you just rid this country of. (Oh, sorry. I shouldn't say such things.) :twisted: That might give you a decent start. Let us know how this purchase is going, and remember that you're required to do a review on that bad boy once you get it, with lotsa pics! A fine Bugei like that deserves an equally fine review. Now see what you got yourself in to? :lol: Seriously, whatever choice you make? I'm definitely interested in feedback from people who have kats of that quality. Take care, man. - TW
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 22, 2013 11:31:54 GMT
Longest blade length Bugei can make is 2 shaku 6 sun. If you can settle with that then the Wave is the option. Second longest is the Old pine at 2 shaku 5 sun 5 bu. Bugei swords are good swords. Biggest downside on them is the wait time, and they are starting to be quite expensive swords. One of my favorite things about the Bugei Bamboo I had was the high shinogi. Of course I didn't measure the change from shinogi to mune, but it was among the most radical I've seen in production swords. Guess I'll have to get even more detailed in my measurements. The K120C hada looks nicer and more subtle when it gets worn out as Hanwei makes the acid treatment so it's very visible at first. As you can see in this pic how the used one I had looked, I much preferred that look to Hanweis usual etch.
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Post by shawn211 on Jul 23, 2013 23:22:45 GMT
well according to those measurements; looks like my katana is going to truly be a beast of a sword...31" nagasa / 13" tsuka. Can't wait to place my order.. when it gets here I will post a Reveal/Review to be followed by my first cuts video. Again, Thanks for the feedback... Anyone else want to chime in; your input will be read and appreciated.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 24, 2013 2:56:13 GMT
Just make sure thats what you want.My sensei likes a long tsuka,Im alil over 6'3" and long arms.y his method my tsuka should be about 13" .I hate long tsuka,12" is an extreme choice for my taste and right about 11" is what I like,just under actually.
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Post by Timberwolf on Jul 24, 2013 4:55:05 GMT
Hi again. Shawn, if that's what you come up with for your nagasa, I'd stick with it. That is a pretty solid measure, and I expected you'd come up with about 31" or so. Johnwalter makes a point that might be applicable in your case, but you'll have to think about this. You tall guys are an extreme case, just like very short guys or most chicks, and it might be better to go with your hand measurements, if they aren't the huge paws that would be proportional to your size. Maybe splitting the difference isn't a good idea if there is a large difference. I'm thinking this is why Johnwalter prefers an 11" or so? :? But only consider that if it applies, because what might seem strange to us initially could very well be what is right and what works. I don't know how you arrived at your tsuka length, and if this doesn't apply? Well, someone out there needs to read this, so I'll just repeat it. :lol: Just FYI, in another thread, we found that overly long tsukas and kats in general were mainly the result of Samurai ego and Japanese nationalism combined with something new at the time, photography and photo ops! www.buildingthepride.com/faculty/takeuchi/DrT_Jpn_Culture_files/Nihon_to_files/tsuka_length.htmAnyways: The logic in the hand method is to be sure you can maximize the leverage of the tsuka without having it become awkward. The wrong length either way is bad from that perspective. But you need that space between the hands for leverage. It's not a baseball bat, and if you see anyone using a kat like a bat (LOL!), they don't know WTF they're doing. :roll: The rationale for the forearm length method is even more obvious. Too long and the danged thing sticks you in the thigh, gut, chest, etc., when you maneuver to the inside. Too short and you're not using the forearm muscles as a natural stop in a one-handed slice, and you hyperextend the flexor muscles near the wrist. There's some that say you shouldn't do that anyway, but? I learned different. Most people are fairly proportional, though, so both methods are close to each other, as I said before. OK, I'll stop there before I go off on a real tangent. Bugeis rock, go for it, man! (HA! The danged site login timed out on me, but I remembered to save what I wrote before I hit "submit"!) :lol:
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 24, 2013 5:43:53 GMT
I remember reading in some book the author saying the newer cases of long tsuka and larger blades,early 1800's on were more or less a result of poor martial skills,improper cutting techniques and lack of core control. When I first started I liked a longer tsuka,I found it gave me more control and more leverage cutting.I began to realize I was maybe using more power cutting than technique.Now this is just what my own opinion based on my own experiences,Im not saying Im right or anyone else is wrong.I felt I was relying more on the long tsuka to stop and control the blade rather than core and technique.I also found the long tsuka got in the way quite often,for me.The more I practiced and cut and used a shorter tsuka I found I was building more core and using more of my body,being ablebto control my nlade easier,move more fluidly in transitions.I can build more speed with a shorter tsuka and closer grip.I no longer need a long tsuka to control my blade.I dont use my forearm to stop a onehanded cut alone,my whole bodyvstops the cut. Timberwolf makes very good points and very valid.In the end,none are perfect for every one person.In addition,styles and teachers vary. Look at James Williams tsuka and hand grip and look at Toshiro Obatas tsuka and hand grip.Both are excellent cutters and martial artists.Different style and preference.
My hands each are about four inches wide add about a half inch to each for angle of grip.With two-three fingers space between hands.Thats my preffered grip.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 24, 2013 5:52:20 GMT
And please review your sword for us when you get it.Lots of pics,haha.
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Post by shawn211 on Jul 24, 2013 23:10:47 GMT
All info gathered here will be mulled over quite a few times before I make my order for the daisho. Yes the beast will have a little brother. Gotta have a waki to go with it. As far as my potential tsuka length; after playing kendo for awhile, which also led me into my iaido practice; all derived from Nagagaki sensei in Japan; combined with my meager knowledge and my boken and yardstick for measuring purposes i may or may not modify my parameters to suit the ultimate purchase.. Don't worry folks; I will be posting more as time goes on. Including when I place the order, when it is due to arrive, when it actually arrives. all culminating in a proper reveal/ review/ and first cuts video.... Time to save those pennies up. Thanks again all...
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