Buckler

The buckler can also be used as a 'punching' instrument. Against an incoming axe blow, it doesn't take a lot of force to skew the blow off target, throwing in an intercepting blow to the axe head(obviously avoiding a dead-on collision) is a good defensive maneuver.

If your sword is going after a hit on my buckler, my sword with be going after a hit on your face.

Having something as light as a buckler allows one to not tire out as quickly as a 20 lbs. big steel shield. Much more maneuverable.

My understanding of the SCA leads me to believe that no matter how armored a combatant is, he is considered to be wearing mail, and an open-faced helmet. It's up to the recipient of any blow to acknowledge it, which leads to some tough-guys(called 'rhino-hiders') not doing so, and thus skewing the actual results of many SCA fights.

At a training session one, there were some SCA affiliates and I remember fighting one who was in full armor(which was a mixture of leather, plastic, and a couple bits of iron). I was unarmored at the time. He was using 2 weapons(rattan-basket-hilts) and I was using my trusty wooden waster from Newstirling arms.

It was kinda silly overall. I had an incredible range advantage, and the two weapons of my opponent got in each other's way quite a bit- though he was incredible aggressive and kept pressing me back. I must've smacked that guy around 2 dozen times or more before he acknowledged a hit, and I'm sure that more than that would've caused damage if we were fighting with real weapons and he was in mail. I'm also pretty sure that a couple of thrusts to the chest area would've pierced light-plate as well. Oh well, it was fun(and somewhat ego-boosting as I was on a bit of a depressed streak after having lost a bout to another longsword guy).

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly where I was going with that whole thing, but I remember it did have a point somewhere in there... oh yeah. With full plate mail, shields are redundant(which is why during the high middle ages, larger two-handed swords became more common). So if one is going to fight and only acknowledge hits that would get through fullplate, yes, a buckler is a silly thing to have. For a quick fighter in mail, it'd more than pay itself off I think.

lol, thanks for you thoughts on the buckler.

With regard to simulated fighting, I have tried various variations of livesteel, padded weapons, rattan, etc... they all have some limitations to one extent or another. I think you have practice under all these conditions to kind of averge out the shortcommings of each. And then of course there is the issue of the skill level of the combatants and how well they conform to the parameters of the simulation. As was metioned, a twosword man who is constantly binding himself up with his own swords is not very good in that weapons form. Likewise someone who is rhinohiding is also skewing the results.

I also so rapier fighting. This is unarmored and the rules are, we accept all touches with the point and any slices where the sword is drawn 6 inches. No cuts or wacks with the blade. These same rules also apply to longsword. The focus here is tipwork. The cuts are made to control the other blade but not to hit the man. This set of variables have some advantages and some shortcommings too. Often I find that I must take slices that I know would hardly cut through the cloth let alone skin.... yet I can not make cuts that would would normaly end the fight in real life. The fact is that in those conditions, someone would get hurt sooner or later by a cut. A accidently got hit with a cut accoss my finger a few weeks ago and it hurt like an MF'er. If we had people intentialy wacking at each other we would see a lot of broken bones particularly among the many smaller women. If these group started arming up... we will not be able to feel the slices and the calibration of the thrust would have to be much harder in order to feel through the breastplates. The Rapier blades might begin to break under hard thrusting conditions so we might need to swich to heavier blades with bigger more padded tips. Then of course the weapon balance would change. Do you see where this is going.... Its going, going, going..... the more changes we make, the more changes we have to make. You can never truely simmulate real life and death conditions. You have to accept some compromises.

I think the current arrangement in my area is best. Because the SCA is such a high calibration, in rapier we go the opposite. This balance allows me to do in one, what I can't do in the other.

One more comment I would like to add with regard to powerful cuts to armor. Before my SCA experiance I was of the opinion that a man in armor was invulnerable. That is before I saw the nasty bruises that people get through their armor. Mind you these are rattan weapons that have a minimum 1.25 inch diameter to spread the impact out. I am sure that a edjed weapon that concetrates the force would have a more cripling effect. It would very likly deform the plate so that it at the very least is very uncomfortable, and at best is restrictive. The other misconcetion I had is that plate covered every inch. Take a look at the photos I posted of my new armor in the armor section and you will see how I had to expose the bicept and upper forearm to allow for functional mobility. The back of the knee is very exposed. The armpits are very exposed. Looking around the SCA I see that the best fighters have a lot of exposed areas. Furthermore there is an issue of the guage (thickness) of our steel to cover vital areas, especialy the head. My 14 guage helmet weighs over 9 lbs. It is designed to be 100% safe. A real helmet would not be so heavy and protective. The plate covering any parts of the body would have been even thicker. Only a jousting kingts armor would be supper reinforced and have a minimum mobility.

I think I may be starting to ramble a bit here, lol.

BTW, there is one guy in my rapier group that uses the buckler in an interesting variation. He holds a buckler and dagger in the same hand clutching the two together in his fist, rapier in the other.

Hi Rammstin. I am not sure if it is posible to arm the whole body and still be able to fight. I have tried and found that I was more vulnerable do to my immobility and the added weight tired me. If you can not fight and tire fast it is only a matter of time before someone targets you behind the knee or knocks you off balance.

I got a chance to look at some armor in Millan this past summer at Sforsenco Castle. Millan was know for producing some of the very best late period armor. Most of it left some pretty big openings on the inside of the joints.

You touched on another one of my interests. As you know I have researched archery and practice it as well. My main focus is heavy warbows. From everything I have read and seen in person or tested myself, normal period plate armor could not stop arrows that were comming straight in at a close distance. Keep in mind that I mean period armor, not the 14 and 12 guage steel we use.

Arrows are very tough to stop but easy to deflect even with light plate. In many late period breast plates and helmets you will notice that they form a "V". The nice thing about metal plate is that its smooth surface allows the arrow to skid by if it comes in at less then 45 degrees. Leather or mail at the same angle with their rougher surface seem to catch the arrow point better.

But here is something funny. There are accounts of mailed knights fighting with as many as a dozzen arrows stuck in thier mail like gaint porcupines. It seems that the a thick, tightly packed, gambemson worn underneath mail will stop the arrow by means of friction applied to the shaft of the arrow as it passes through (not that I want to bet my life on that). In contrast, on breastplate typicaly worn without padding, once the arrow point penetrates the plate there is very little resistance to stop the arrow before it gets to the body. The smooth nature of the mettle will allow the arrow shaft no resistance past the puncture point.

Consider how easily 4 inch foam targets stops arrows even at close range. The initial impact of the arrow tip on the foam is of no consequence. It is the resistance of the surrounding foam that slows the arrows and stops it. It is a matter of a little bit of force applyed over a large area in the case of gambesons and foam. In the case of plate, we are apply a lot of force to the very tip to the arrow to try to stop it. Arrow can win unless their is also an angle of deflection to disperse that force.


Going back on topic. Does anyone have links some of the paintings showing the use of a buckler in battle. I forgot where I saw them.

I do find the buckler very usefull for rapier fencing which is normaly set in an urban setting and convinience matters. Here is one I made of plastic. It weighs 2 lbs 2 oz and is about 15 inches wide.

Great piece of info. Thanks.

Thank you for your thoughts Hank. I did some work today with the Rapier and Buckler. This is a new combination for me. I found that for the first time my shins became a high target area. The defence I worked on, after some discusion, was to pull the heal back and do a stop-thrust to the head. Takes some getting use to. The other issue I had to workout was how to block those head shots without blinding myself. The salution seems to be to bring the buckler up as if saluting so I can see under it.

I'm not ready to bring the buckler to my rattan practice quite yet. I think I would get totaly creamed. If any more thougths come to mind with regard to the buckler, I would be love to hear them.

Bill

You are dead on correct. We were just discusing in practice yesterday how the period manuals sugest rotating a buckler with corners to block to the outside. Important to get into the habit of rotating to the outside otherwise you may be guiding the tip straight into yourself if your rotate inwards.

Follow up post... the buckler experiment blew up in my face. Blows where comming in from everywhere. Buckler is just too easy to get around. Back to the old sheild next week.