Flammards (NOT Flamberges, flammenbulges, etc.)

well if this thing was tempered it would be hot;

Maybe I'll stick my greasy fingers also into this thread... not that I'm much of an expert, but just thought of something when I was looking at the pictures on this page:
www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html

Notice how the wave pattern often resembles a saw-pattern more than a wave on many of the swords?

This got me thinking, as I've often heard it claimed that these swords were used to cut the shafts of pikes of the opposing pike formations... I believe a wooden shaft, if you cut it with enough force and a big sword like this, will probably break in two with one hack. But what if it doesn't, and your sword gets stuck in the shaft? After all, it's unlikely that the blow was coming from a 90 degree angle perpendicular to the shaft, and more likely that it was at least to some degree going along the length of the shaft, in which case the blade could really get stuck in it.

Now, if you've ever had a straight blade get stuck in wood, you might have noticed that it can be really difficult to yank out, especially if the wood is a bit moist. However, if you have a saw stuck in wood, you usually only have to give it one fast and strong pull, and it'll come loose. I would imagine this would be because the edge of a straight blade creates a large, even sticking surface against the wood inside the cut, whereas a saw blade has air in the cut and is in actual physical contact with the wood in a much smaller area.

In short, I would think that a blade with a saw pattern would be easier to pull out after being hit into wood. I might be incorrect though, and this would really have to be tested. Anybody got a couple of Zweihanders lying about? ;D

As to the one-handers and rapiers... no idea. Fashion statement? Misguided impression of enhanced functionality? Blacksmith showing off?

Sam: Yep, sorry my bad, it was 4 am when I posted that.

luke: this is from the other thread you questioned my practical experience in;



That is all I can tell you.

The Celts used them.

Many if not most flammard blades never saw use. They were carried only by officers in the landsknechte, which was notoriously know for it's sense of fashion. Absolutely guady clothes and plumed hats that they were very proud of, tichts, frill, lace, the whole works. It wasn't popular fashion, it was their own made up style, and more flamboyant men than these could not be found.

The argument stands the flammards were meant to practical in their blade design - if so, why didn't the rest of europe, many who had pike formations of their own (and in turn pike breakers), ever use them. The germans were no technologically superior to anyone else, and their flamboyantness should have EASILY spread the sword design, had it been more effective than a usual sword.


No, it's very clear that fashion played the biggest role in designing these blades.

Untrue. The renaissance was a time of change, and this was very much something that changed. looks WITHOUT DAMMAGING the weapon's functionality were a very important concern. Swept hilt rapiers, anyone?

I believe there was mention of the kris in the earlier myarmoury articles.

But remember, the kris was a religious artifact.

I wasn't specific enough, I meant in the form of a two handed sword.

We fine flammard rapier elsewhere in europe I believe, not to mention other weapons. But as a two handed sword, it was pretty limitted to germany during a specific era.

So a several thousand Landsknecht ran around with wavy blade because they thought they were cool? Please do not mock them. You say that fashion is a big role in evolution of some swords. I would like to say that the evolution of swords happen because of changes in the battlefield not because aristocrats thought that "oh I want a long thin blade with a swept hilt". No, the weapons have changed in history because of changes in warfare and tactics, different warfare requires different weapons.



You are actually agreeing with me with that statement.


And Rammstein have a smite, the reason is:


You are basically destroying the whole purpose of the karma system. Karma is given as a symbol of appreciation for something that one has done, you should not give it out as candy. And you should not trade karma for karma as I see so many do on this forum. I have to agree with Sam Salvati - Don't be a karma whore. If you got shadow smitten, what does it matter? They reckoned that you deserved it, and now you beg people for karma so your karma meter can go up to as it was before the shadow smiting? Please, are you going to beg for an extra karma point now that I have smitten you?