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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 22:14:53 GMT
The MSR is primarily active in the North East. They do Livesteel, Rattan, Rapier, Archery and a few other things. I got a chance to play with the live steel guys. Here are some vids of the more experianced people.
Here is some more action.
I wear a fencing mask for this. The guy in the red has a huge scare accross his neck caused by a blunt blade.
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Post by rammstein on Sept 10, 2007 23:02:00 GMT
The first video was slow, uncoordinated and lacked a lot of the finesse I usually see in longsword fighting.
The second video (and I know zilch on I.33 buckler) seems good. No idea on how accurate it is, but it didn't look like I.33. Still, at least unlike BAA they moved their feet, varied their blows, and looked believable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2007 0:34:00 GMT
Some things to keep in mind with Live Steel so what you see makes some sense. The first and last issue is safety. Two techniques. You can use either as long as you and your partner are on the same page. First, all shots are thrown from out of range. Even if your opponent fails to block, you will miss him anyway. The Second option, which allows for some close-in maneuvers is that all shots thrown are off-line. So you are aiming your sword about a foot to the side of your opponent. This is a similar techniques that stage-actors use. You can still practice everything properly in-range, just the force of the blow is not directed at you partner. People watching can't tell the difference.
In all cases, you have to windup your weapon so your opponent can see where it is coming from. That is the Moulinet's and figure-eights you see. Your strikes must be slow enough to see the blade. You can not use Static Strikes, low-raising shots, pumps and other fakes. Essentially this is NON-Competitive. If they see you getting competitive, your out of the game. Every group out there is going to have safety-rules, these are the rules of this group.
Rammestien, these vids are not pre-rehearsed or choreographed. A lot of the other vids I have seen on You-tube with Live Steel are choreographed. They still are a good display of technique and form. That is important too.
On I.33 buckler, I have always thought that was specific to one area rather then a complete fighting system. This guy uses sword and buckler as his primary style. I know one other guy that uses bucker in the SCA with rattan on a regular basis. He is good, and blocks more like what you see in I.33 using the buckler to protect the hand. The weakness in that is that when his hands come together, I am able to swipe both his weapons aside with my shield (or sword if I am fighting two-weapon), and just wrap around him. However, that guy is very fast on his feet and will usually jump back out of range as soon as I swipe him.
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Post by rammstein on Sept 12, 2007 0:44:51 GMT
Look harder. Many, many longsword vids I've seen have not been rehearsed at all and are a lot cleaner and more precise. Their form is absolutely appalling, although it is a slight shot better than just flailing about. Where's Adam when you need him?
I'm afraid I can prove anything without a student of longsword here to back me up, but that is a very VERY poor example.
Basically, it's arma moving at 25% speed with no point other than looks and without even a quarter of the skill.
IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2007 0:56:33 GMT
I did not mean to say that they were the best... but what you do see there does take a lot of practice to develop. Just to get to that level is difficult, but yes there is better.
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Post by rammstein on Sept 12, 2007 1:02:02 GMT
Undertood and somewhat agreed. There is far better. Maybe it's just the speed?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2007 1:05:18 GMT
I was trying to find some other Livesteel vids. Damn, you can never find what you are looking for. I wanted to take a closer look at the timing.
Post some if you still remember the links and we can analyze what is going on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2007 1:21:54 GMT
I spent some time looking through some You Tube vids. The Live Steel ones are all coreograhed Demo's. A few real matches I found where with wooden simulators.
I think there has to be at least one or two out there that I can't find.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2007 3:02:57 GMT
I found this Saber play on You Tube. It is interesting to watch. They are using classical fencing footwork. You have to look for it. You will see it in their advances and retreats. They are also staying out of range for safety.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2007 16:48:26 GMT
Tsafa: those guys are still in effective striking range so not sure what you are talking about distance, unless you mean that they have rehearsed it in such a way that the way they move puts them outside of effective range because of the forms they are using? Also i am looking at getting into some medieval re-enactment combat, i already found a group who look pretty professional and have some good swordsman, it will be interesting to actually get some practical experience against other people.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2007 4:55:29 GMT
Take a closer look. On a few shots they actualy miss the other guys buckler. The saber swings way clear. No chance of every hitting the other guy. The curve of the saber also gives a few extra inches of safety. They are holding the swords in a hammer grip so that the grip is perpendicular to their forarm. They would need to get withing puching distance to hit each other. There is only once foot shot that one guy takes where he actualy lets the blade come out. In that shot he aims it into the ground in front of the foot.
It is a good show. I am only pointing out diffrent safety mechenisms that are used by different groups.
Bloodwraith, I would like to here more about your group. How are they organized? What weapons they use? What are the striking rules? What safety protocols they have in place?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 4:12:09 GMT
Hey Tsafa,
The group is called the new varangian guard. Not sure what you mean by how are they organized? Weapons vary, everything from two handed axes to quarterstaff to sword. Any weapon you can justify in that period that your character would use as long as you can make it safe, whether that be having no edge or having less weight or whatever. Striking rules are only diagonal cuts to the head, horizontal strikes to the arms and downward stabs to the stomach. You are allowed to tap areas of the body like thighs and things like that but no solid hits. Rules go that if you are hit in an area like an arm or whatever you lose that and must compensate. So say you get tapped on the thigh, you have to simulate a limp as if the leg is damaged. Safety protocols are the speed at which the combat is performed and equipment. Everyone must wear at least a helmet, gambeson and gloves. Armour can be as elaborate as you like as long as it fits the period and your character.
If you would like anymore details let me know
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 4:30:30 GMT
Thanks, that gave me a good idea of how the practice goes. I like to compare different practice structures. If you ever get around to taking some video, be sure to post.
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