|
Post by ridhwan5 on Apr 19, 2013 4:10:45 GMT
Hey guys,
again, another noob question from me.
Again, I am considering ordering a blunt katana (iaito) from Zhisword/Buyiaito or Sinoswords.
I have already got the fittings, measurements and blade selection locked in but I am still in need of advice for samegawa wrapping.
One of my senpais recommend getting full wrap as should the tsuka core cracked, I can count on the samegawa as some sort of cast.
Another said just got with panel wrap so that I dont sacrifice on wood material. His reasoning is that for China forges, they may crave too deep into the wood core when they may the full wrap, thus weakening it and more prone to crack. With panel wrap, there is still a more solid wood material.
And this is where I am confused. Sure, should I order from Japan, I will definitely go for full wrap. But these are China forges and I am concerned about my 2nd senpai's POV.
What about you all? what are your opinions? pros and cons?
thanks again and appreciate your patience.
p.s. upgrade of full wrap from panel wrap is additional 40USD by both forges
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 19, 2013 4:23:53 GMT
Hello friend. Both of your instructors have very valid views.
I'd personally opt for panels on such an iaito. A full wrap would be most useful on a sword that will see real impact. The force from a swing is real, but not in the same league as an actual hit. Beyond that, most lower-cost Chinese forges use tanned skins for their wraps, which does not give nearly the same level of reinforcement as the use of a proper raw hide.
However, like the first one said, a cracked tsuka is a commonly seen flaw in production swords. If the forge used a proper hide, then it would indeed provide a bit more safety. If the hide is tanned, you would be paying a premium for a negligible amount of reinforcement on a thinner core.
|
|
|
Post by kingrikoraru on Apr 19, 2013 5:41:52 GMT
It's an iaito so you don't need a full panel wrap. Typically, you use full wrap for swords that you cut with, and you use deluxe full wrap from japan if it's for display or if it's a sword you're proud of!
|
|
|
Post by Genghis Khan on Apr 20, 2013 0:41:44 GMT
Forgive another newb's opinion, especially since it runs counter to other opinions previously given.
My iai had panels and a single mekugi. It was used when I bought it from my Sensei, but not heavily so. After about 6 months, I figured out that the tsuka core was split across the top. I had the tsuka replaced and new silk Ito wrapped. I had Fred Lohman do it and we had a long conversation about it. He is of the opinion that even in an iai, a full wrap makes a huge difference in the strength and that a tsuka with panels is more likely to split. I went with the full wrap and am happy with the decision.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 20, 2013 0:59:19 GMT
Fred Lohman knows his stuff. However, of course he'd say to get one. it makes him more money, hahaha. And a full wrap done by an expert is much different than a full wrap done at a low-cost forge. Like I said, if the skin is the correct kind, then it's much more worth it. If it's tanned, then it's much less so.
|
|
|
Post by kingrikoraru on Apr 20, 2013 2:54:00 GMT
I would say that Lohman over charges and is not worth it unless it's a high value sword or nihonto. There are various people on the forum and frank of cotton tail custom who you can get it done for cheaper if you want a full wrap
|
|
|
Post by Genghis Khan on Apr 20, 2013 18:22:57 GMT
Actually Fred cut me a hell of a deal. I had a new tsuka, silk Ito and a fell wrap for $350 when it should have been $700. The full wrap did not add to the cost.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 21, 2013 3:09:42 GMT
Hahaha, I was mostly just playing. I've never dealt with Fred, and thus cannot personally comment on his work. That is a hell of a deal, though.
|
|
kaiyo
Member
Posts: 1,201
|
Post by kaiyo on Apr 23, 2013 0:02:41 GMT
normally panels are good enough for a blunt sword, all you need a solid tsuka
but - the experience with my customs from Zhisword and Sinosword, both tsuka were everything else but solid, because of that i would always go with a full wrap
|
|
|
Post by uchiha998 on Apr 24, 2013 13:20:07 GMT
So how can you tell the difference between a tanned skin and one that is not?
Are all sub $500 production katana done with tanned samegawa?
Im just curious this is something I hadn't previously known before reading this thread. I knew some swords were panels and others full wrap but I didn't know about tanning or not. I always thought that the reason for tanning any animal skin was to give it strength, but that was just an assumption.
|
|
kaiyo
Member
Posts: 1,201
|
Post by kaiyo on Apr 24, 2013 22:34:26 GMT
natural samegawa is VERY stiff, it provides superior strenght to a tsuka
tanned samegawa is soft almost leather like
|
|
|
Post by frankthebunny on Apr 25, 2013 4:35:05 GMT
Raw samegawa acts a lot like rawhide does, it contracts as it dries after being soaked in water resulting in a very tight compression fit. When a piece of raw samegawa is soaked and then wrapped around a tsuka core it adds to the strength of the handle where as a piece of tanned samegawa will not have the same benefits of compression. Because the tanned skins are also fairly thick, they will require more wood to be removed from the core without providing that extra strength thus actually weakening the handle. While not all sub $500 katana with a full wrap will have tanned skin, many will and it is pretty hard to tell in pictures when the tsuka is already wrapped with ito. As mentioned earlier, if the tsuka core was made properly, panels will be just fine structurally speaking.
If you don't trust the maker or seller, don't bother getting it with a full wrap because it very well could be done with tanned skin.
-Josh
|
|
|
Post by grmnsplx on Apr 25, 2013 19:22:49 GMT
I don't understand why you are considering Zhisword/Buyiaito or Sinoswords.
If you can afford $350 for a new handle and wrap, then you can afford a well made Japanese iaito or similar.
|
|