Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 14:31:44 GMT
Below is a relief of the Shardhana or "Sherden" Guard, of Rameses II, the Great himself. They were members of the 'Sea Peoples" that would later settle in Canaan and history remembers as the "Philistines." Their exact origin is unknown, though many people have connected the Philistines with the Minoans, personally I suspect the Sherden tribe themselves were Anatolian, but quite possibly Dorian too. The Dorians were more or less to the Bronze Age Greeks, what the Goths and Vandals were to the Late Romans. The Dorians swept in from Northern Greece and completely destroyed the Mycenaean civilisation, introducing Greece to their very own version of the Dark Ages, in fact the period after the Dorian invasion is referred to as the Dark Ages, exactly what happened with Rome and then Europe.. History truly does repeat itself doesn't it? Now the sword, being in the service of the Pharaoh, one would assume it is bronze, however one of the reasons the Dorians so thoroughly destroyed the Mycenaean civ, is their introuction of the Iron Age.. If these men were recruited as bodyguards of the Pharaoh himself, one might assume perhaps they are Dorian in origin, and these fearsome swords are of course, iron and not bronze. If you look at how they seem to have been intended to use (cut and thrust) and their extreme length, it would seem iron would be ideal for making this sword work. Whatever origin the sword has, and whatever material it was constructed of, one things for certain, it's badass, and I want one! Considering it's wielder, I wouldn't be suprised if this is the sword David beheaded Goliath with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 16:36:32 GMT
It's actually very similar to bronze Mycenaean swords I posted in this topic: /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1205540556
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 16:42:47 GMT
Interesting theory, I've always wondered why some of my Palestinian friends look like Greek goddesses! What's your background, if I may ask? Historian?
Thanks for sharing this!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 8:59:51 GMT
Luka, lovely swords, but I suspect their a bit small compared to the swords Sherden guards were shown with.
Hilt style and blade shape though is spot on I'm sure.
ShayanMirza, my background? Bout to turn 18, just a normal teenage guy with a passion for this era . I'm just a kid with a huge interest in this kind of stuff, the Bronze Age in particular. Something romantic about it to me.
As for swords? My preference is Chinese and Islamic swords, right next to the Bronze Age.
Jian, Shamshir, Pala, Kilic, Khopesh, just to name a few.
Eitherway, I've found alot of strange sword designs from the bronze age that I'll be posting later!
Right now I'm just interested in seeing if I could get anyone into the Mycenaean, Minoan, Canaanite, Egyptian, Sumerian, Iranian (Elam in the Bronze Age I believe) and Assyrian bronze age swords.
I'll be posting more on this stuff, perhaps one of our smiths would take interest if someone else would? Theres some very interesting designs to be had in the world's very first swords! Just because they were the very first, does not make them ineffective!
As for my theory, thank you very much sir, glad you were interested. One thing to remember though is it's pretty much accepted fact that the Philistines or "Sea Peoples" were Greek/Anatolian.
However Palestinian girls (you did say goddesses) that look like Aphrodite's and Artemis's.. I'd love to see that!
Have to say I've got a bit of a love for Middle Eastern girls.. there was this Lebanese chick I was friends with. Gorgeous..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 13:01:01 GMT
Steve: You and I have the same taste in swords, although one of my favourites is a thin bladed oxtail and a true broadsword.
I've seen some of those civilizations weapons actually made, especially the Myceneans, Egyptians and Iranian oh and Canaanite. Minoans were an amazingly advanced civilization indeed and I have seen a few of their swords. Too many civilizations and not enough time.
I go to a church with lebanese girls and I must say I concur.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 13:58:44 GMT
Awesome, Bloodwraith! Looks like were going to be friends. ;]
Post more about those Minoan swords! Lets get a movement going! For far too long has this part of the forum been exclusive to Gladii and 300 swords (that didn't exist!) lets introduce our fellow forumites to the glories of the B.C. days!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 14:51:17 GMT
When I figure out how to upload pics from my computer, I have a few bronze era pics for yall to partake of. Some are kinda nice! More to come, as soon as I get back to Dublin National Museum on Thurs/Friday!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 16:07:33 GMT
Amen to that steve, I am still trying to find examples of minoan swords, they are few and far between, I have found a very cool site that has some great pictures though. You might've seen it but for those who haven't; www.larp.com/hoplite/bronze.html
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2008 14:55:00 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 2:11:32 GMT
Do you own any? And who makes/sells the 2nd khopesh, and what is the hilt constructed of? Hilt looks kinda questionable for 1250 B.C. Egypt..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 2:27:47 GMT
Don't own any of these ones mate but the seller is reputable in some serious circles, they are all from an Australian maker called manning imperial, there is a review of one of their weapons on myarmoury.com. The hilt on the khopesh (there is only one, the other is a canaanite sword) is quite accurate to the original. I personally love the mycenean sword with the double "house fullers" it is a thoroughly vicious looking piece of hardware. That is only a small sampling of what they make, I've had my eyen on one of their swords for quite some time but last I checked the wait time in 18 months, no thanks, I am impatient.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 2:50:38 GMT
I like the Canaanite Khopesh they make (seen it before) but 400 is a bit to steep for me.. well, that is if it can't be a cutter.
And yeah I like Mycenaean sword too, but my personal preference is the longer one.
What I meant bout the Egyptian one, is I know the shape is correct, it's the handle wrapping I was skeptical of.
As for me I plan on designing my own versions of Bronze Age swords (not fantasy, my own designs of historically accurate ones I mean) and finding the best custom smith to make that. ;]
See I don't want to make the hilt designs too flamboyant or gaudy, but what I want to design is something similar to what a high ranking warrior would've carried like Goliath or Achilles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 10:00:57 GMT
Great post! I would like to see a picture of the original relief if one is available.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 14:11:16 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2008 14:21:26 GMT
The Sea Peoples destroyed most of the established civilizations on the Fertile Crescent (Near East), including the Hittite Empire and its vassal state Ugarit, almost destroyed the 2nd Assyrian Empire (more petty kingdom at that stage, but...) and razed most of the native Caananite cities of the time. Only Pharaonic Egypt survived this onslaught, but the price came high as Egypt became a hollow shell of its former power. It has been speculated that the Hebrews were part of this Sea People's (at least the ones from the Dan tribe) as a victory stele in Egypt shows and/or narrates an epic victory of the Egyptians where the captured soldiers who were uncircumsized got their semprini chopped off and those WITH circumsition had one of their hands chopped. I assume that the only people of the region who actively practiced circumcision (sorry for the misspelling) were the ancient Hebrews. Also, the Philistines and Hebrews arrived more or less at the same time to Caanan, both displacing the native populations, as the Philistines got into the coast and northern parts and the Hebrews got the larger share of land. Both used iron weapons, however it is worthy mentioning that the earliest iron weapons were less quality than the current bronze ones that were being used, so iron became a determinant later when the forging techniques were depured and perfected.
|
|