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Post by pokey on Mar 21, 2013 11:35:57 GMT
so after being obsessed with swords and armour for most of my young life, then forgetting about them, i have come full circle now that im 30 (early mid life crisis?) and am loving the pointy sticks again. the difference is, well now i can actually buy them hahahahah. well im studying at the moment so i cant buy anything *too* lavish. anyway, my first purchase... the hanwei tinker longsword. now my only reservation is that it comes with a bad edge, and im hoping to file away the secondary bevel and give it a nice 'appleseed' bevel. anyway, is this a completely mad idea for someone who has never even swung a sword around to try and file one down to a proper edge? i would rather not ruin it :? but then again it was extremely cheap so its not like i will break into tears if i do...
so the plan... to buy a cheapish large dagger that comes blunt, and practice on that one. then if all goes well move onto the longsword. i have read a bit about the process, and am wondering, is it more like a patience thing, or a skill thing? like could anyone do it, if they spent the time, or are you bound to ruin a few blades before you get the hang of it? i have done more sanding and filing in my life than i care to remember, but never hardened steel!
i assume you basically file down the 'ridge' of the secondary bevel, so there is a smooth transition along the blade to the edge... am i right in thinking that since there is aleady a sharp edge to guide me, it wont be exasperatingly difficult?
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 21, 2013 13:41:47 GMT
all i can say is good luck brother...ive tried to reprofile the tinker viking sword and longsword....all i did was waste 20+ hours of my time and scratched up the blade. The problem with them is if you get one with a bad bevel its such an extreme angle the ammount of metal youd have to remove to make it a smooth flat cutting plane is ridiculous. You might want to PM Dadaochen, hes currently working on reprofiling my tinker greatsword and he may be able to offer you some valuable advice
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Post by willhart on Mar 21, 2013 16:17:51 GMT
I did this with my Hanwei Tinker Longsword. I first used a file to try to flatten out the secondary bevel. I didn't touch the actual edge when filing. Once I filed it down a bit I used a $35 belt sander from Harbor Frieghts and started with a low grit belt of 80grit. I spent about 4 hours, one hour on each edge until I smoothed out the secondary bevel. If you don't have power tools, look to spend 20+ hours like Saito to make it look pretty again.
If you're going the hand sanding route, I would suggest waterstones as they're the fastest way to do hand sanding, but like every type of sanding it takes practice.
Also I would suggest not using the file on the edge itself. Use it on the bevel. A file is too rough to use on the actual edge, it's to strip off metal.
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Post by pokey on Mar 22, 2013 9:29:06 GMT
thanks for the advice it sounds like i have the right idea basically, although a belt sander might be a worthwhile investment by the sound of it! what grade file and water stones would you recommend? i think the file should be 400 or so, and i guess the waterstones a range from 600 -1000 would work? will post up my results when i try it, hahah might be a sad day in SBG history if i destroy the thing
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Post by willhart on Mar 22, 2013 18:29:35 GMT
I'm not sure on the files, I don't think they go by grits. I just bought one from Walmart. As for waterstones it would depend on what you're trying to do. Go for 200-250 for reshaping the blade and getting a fairly sharp blade. Then go up to 1000 grit to do the final sharpening/polishing. Going up any higher will just give you better mirror finish so it's up to you. If you want it stupid sharp you will probably need to go with a leather strop and compound to get it stupid sharp. Just like the last step in Tomk's sharpening guide with the belt sander is a leather belt with compound on it, you could do the same thing if you want to hand sand it. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sharpen-a-sword.html
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Post by Lord Cobol on Mar 23, 2013 3:56:39 GMT
For "cheapish large dagger" think machete. If hardware stores near you don't have anything blunt & cheap, check garden supply stores. One near me has a few models under $10.
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Post by chrisperoni on Mar 23, 2013 5:48:46 GMT
I think you have just the right idea. Start with a practice blade- for me it was as stainless steel wannabe katana (s.l.o. as we call it here, sword like object). I then followed Tom's method in his first 2 videos, the hand method. I would not recommend a belt sander until you have more practice on long blades that are not important to you at all. With power tools comes speed and so a mistake can happen faster and to a greater extent. Heat is also a bigger issues with power tools in general. If the bevel is very steep then start by filing perpendicular to the corner of the bevel and bring the corner down some befoe going to sandpaper. Watch at minute 1:30 of the 2nd video to see what I mean. I don't think sharpening stones are necessary for you (no offence meant to my friend willhart , we all just have stuff we prefer) . Instead hit up an auto body parts store like Canadian Tire or O'reilly Auto Parts and pick up some low to high grit paper and some 3 in 1 oil. If you didn't file first I'd start at maybe 300 grit, then 600, 800, 1000, 2000, 4000. Myself, I would actually stop at 800 and give the whole sword a satin finish but going higher will get you to a mirror finish. Skill helps for sure but practice builds that skill. Take it slow and steady and watch for fatigue to keep from getting sloppy. One more thing- Tom has an update to his hand sharpening videos which really should be included in the SBG page. This shows an alternate method of keeping the blade stationary vs. the sandpaper.
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Post by pokey on Mar 23, 2013 15:50:15 GMT
thanks so much for the feedback, your forum title is truly deserved. i feel pretty good now about tackling this challenge, i was a painter for several years, and i collect pewter 'wargaming' figurines, so i have done a fair bit of sanding and filing in my time im not sure if im allowed to mention specific sellers etc, but i bought it from medieval-weaponry.co.uk. they have great deals on a few items from the hanwei/tinker line, and most importantly, for a person in australia, the shipping is super cheap. i have discovered that every USA seller will charge about $200+ to send an item to australia!!!! but for some reason, the above mentioned site and the knight shop will send the same item for about $40... so when your shopping for a sub $300 sword from the great land down under, this makes all the difference! the longsword cost me a meagre $AU 210 delivered, and next i will grab the single handed early medieval sword for $190 delivered. hope im not breaking some forum etiquette by mentioning these sellers, butof course if this is the case then delete this post or something moderators
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Post by chrisperoni on Mar 23, 2013 15:59:58 GMT
You're well within your rights to mention a seller. After all this is the Sword Buyers Guide forum A big part of what goes on here is discussion of product/ manufacturer/ vendor, all with the intent of finding the good ones. So long as you stick with the the facts and stay professional, information about sellers is just what is wanted.
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Post by willhart on Mar 25, 2013 18:21:27 GMT
You're right Chris, everyone has their own methods I was just trying to save him some time with the waterstone idea. I have waterstones, arkansas stones, belt sander and automotive sandpaper. Out of those nothing works faster than the belt sander with a low grit for reprofiling a secondary bevel. I don't know how you guys do it, maybe I don't have the weight or strength, but for me the 3M automotive sandpaper takes forever and just seems to scratch up the blade and then wears out pretty quick. Using waterstones seems to take forever too, but I've found it takes off a lot more material and you see progress right away, but they're way more expensive than automotive sandpaper.
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Post by pokey on Mar 26, 2013 15:02:58 GMT
yes i noticed that a couple of waterstones will basically cost the same as the sword did so i might rule those out for now... probably something that will seem much more worthwhile when the collection has grown to some size received the sword today, very happy with it except the bevel which i was expecting, i dont know how they could bring themselves to butcher such a beautifully shaped piece of steel like that, but oh well i was completely expecting it, thanks mostly to the reviews on this site of course (!) so im not worried about it. (although some part of me thought maybe i would get lucky and get the single one out there that had been sharpened properly heheheh) will try to set it right the hard way, with a file and some sand paper. worse case scenario, it accoplished nothing and i end up having to use something more drastic, but it should help give me a feel for the process at least. and 'build character' right ??
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Post by willhart on Mar 26, 2013 16:55:10 GMT
I would recommend the belt sander over all things, but you can find a 200/1000 grit waterstone on Amazon for less than $30. One side is 200 grit one side is 1000 grit.
Belt sanders can get expensive too with all the belts, but well worth it. The harbor frieghts 1x30 belt sander is under $40.
Good luck and let us know how the bevel removing goes.
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Post by frankthebunny on Mar 27, 2013 1:15:24 GMT
I was able to put a decent edge on my H/T emshs with sandpaper and a hard sanding block in the course of a few days. I would start with a fine file or 320-600 paper to get the bevel out and then progress up as far as you feel you want it. Do as much as you can handle in each session and you'll have a serviceable edge before you know it I found it was much easier to work on this type of blade edge rather than the hardened edge of a katana. btw - I didn't sharpen the entire length but only about 9-11" on both sides from the tip down (the portion that does the cutting)
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Post by pokey on Mar 27, 2013 7:58:42 GMT
well i have taken the thing apart, and found that the pommel is held on by a piece of threaded rod welded onto the end of the tang
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Post by pokey on Mar 27, 2013 8:26:56 GMT
some pics, im no expert but thats welded? its kind of off centre even
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Post by pokey on Mar 27, 2013 10:14:56 GMT
took a picture of the shoulders too, do they look alright at least?
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Post by willhart on Mar 27, 2013 16:23:44 GMT
I'm not an expert, but that's how most H/T's look. The thread is not supposed to be welded on. The pommel should key into the tang and touch more the tang than the threaded portion. The hexnut should push the pommel up onto the tang. If it does that, then the pommel should be safe. If the pommel only touches the threaded portion, then you have a problem.
The shoulders should be rounded like that. One shoulder isn't as smooth as the other, but you didn't buy a $1000+ sword so you can't expect perfection.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 27, 2013 16:27:14 GMT
i dont like threaded tangs, but that is perfectly normal for the hanwei tinker line
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 28, 2013 4:03:50 GMT
Yes, the shoulders are radiused correctly
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Post by frankthebunny on Mar 28, 2013 4:33:29 GMT
if done properly, welds can be very strong and that looks pretty good to me and unless there's bad flaws it should be fine. I'm not sure my emshs has a welded rod, have to check that out.
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