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Post by briguy168 on Mar 19, 2013 20:52:41 GMT
I am in the market to get both a fully functional Jian and either a straight Ninja-to like the Hanwei Practical Ninja-to or a more realistic curved sword, probably a wakizashi. The Jian will most likely be used not only for forms from Shaolin Kung Fu but also for practical use as well; I was thinking either one of these ( www.ebay.com/itm/200782216410?ss ... 1423.l2649) or ( www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... jian-sword). As for the "ninja sword", after I complete my training in Shaolin Kung Fu, I plan on taking Ninjitsu/Taijitsu. I know that a straight (Chokuto) Ninja-to came from more Hollywood than history. The sword they most likely would have used was a Wakizashi or something similar to that. What I'm asking is should I buckle down and get the Hanwei Practical Ninja-to even though it isn't truly historically accurate or should I get something like this ( www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... tana-sword) and have it customized to what I want? I suppose it doesn't really matter if I have a chokuto or a curved blade when it comes to Ninjitsu/Taijitsu and I'll probably will have to use a chokuto when I eventually learn Ninjitsu/Taijitsu but for me I would much rather have something a bit more historically accurate than something that came as a result of Hollywood re-engineering! What do you guys think?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 20, 2013 15:07:13 GMT
Hi. Were did you get the idea that a Chokuto is Hollywood invention? This blade type is older than the katana and is the Chinese Tang Jian ,,a la Japonaise'', where the fittings are concerned. Blade - wise there is no difference. In the beginning of their sword culture the Japanese imported and copied a lot of Chinese blades and the know how to produce swords also, including DH. Cheers, Ulahn.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Mar 20, 2013 16:22:24 GMT
I think the meant the distinctive ninja straight blade, single edge is started from Hollywood. The original chokuto were more of a straight, double edged sword and could also be refer to as the Ken sword. In fact it's explained here :http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ninja-swords.html from our own front page. To quote from it: The actual historical accuracy of these swords is very doubtful to say the least.
(There are no actual antique swords of this style and it is generally believed that the design is a modern invention of martial arts master Stephen K. Hayes).
The proper ninja sword would be close to something of that cheness oniyuri, a ko katana inside a katana saya.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 20, 2013 17:08:53 GMT
Hi. I got the type mixed up. I should have said the Tang Dao. The Tang Dao was imported into Japan. See: chineseswords.freewebspace.com/custom2.htmlAlso the Jian was imported. Names were changed but not much else. The Tang Dao is single edged and to my knowledge an ancestor of the curved katana, just like it evolved in China into the Dao or sabre form. Both blade types were made in Japan also at a slightly later date. So, I still do not see the Ninja connection. Both blade types are, as far as I know, part of Japans Cultural Heritage and in use long before the Katana. But please correct me if I am wrong. I cannot follow the url, something wrong says Firefox. Cheers, Ulahn Edit: To my eyes the Jian or Ken evolved in the Kogarasu Maru, also long before the Katana came in the picture. If you mean the Japanese version of the Tang Dao is what is now called a Ninja Katana, a marketing gimmick in name, I think there the connection with Hollywood ends. The Japanese version of the Tang Dao was in use and morphed into the katana much later because of changes in warfare tactics. I hope I did not read all those books and stuff for nothing. Cheers again.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 20, 2013 21:51:46 GMT
The modern ninja sword is not the Japanese version of the Tang dao. All they share is straightness and the single-edge. The blade profile is usually different, and the mountings are different. Given that the characteristic mountings of the modern ninja sword are what make it "ninja", a generic straight sword is not "ninja".
To the OP: Accept the modern ninja sword as a modern tradition, and if you want to be traditional, get one. If you want to be historical, get a wakizashi (or a katana). Why would a secret agent carry a special secret agent sword? As an ID card, so the local castle guards can recognise him? Using an ordinary sword is a good historical approach. Then there is the Cheness Oniyuri, traditionally ninja in the modern sense, and close to a historical sword. However, the most efficient answer might be for you to find the people you plan to train with, and ask them. Might save buying a 2nd ninja sword later.
Also, since you plan to use the jian for forms, why get an archaic style that is quite different from the weapon the forms are intended for? The extra long grip, round grip, and different balance will make a difference. Do you want that? These Han-style jian are usually less functional than the more modern style jian - makers tend to drill a round hole through the grip for the tang, leaving a lot of structually bad empty space in there. Of course, you can fill that with epoxy or epoxy putty, and it's a good idea to do so if you want to make it as functional as possible.
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Post by briguy168 on Mar 21, 2013 5:25:23 GMT
I just read the review of the Oniyuri Bujinkan and that's exactly what I want although, it sucks that the hamon is fake because I would much rather have no hamon if it's a fake one. Aside from that small detail, I think I may have found my practical ninja sword, thanks for the referral!
As for the Jian, that Han sword from ebay has got me a little sketched out. I much rather get something that's tailored to me (the sinosword one) than something that's mass like that ebay one. Currently, I'm inquiring about that sinosword Jian that I listed previously. Hopefully it's a bit cheaper to make than a tamahagane blade.... :-)
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Post by briguy168 on Mar 21, 2013 17:53:37 GMT
Oh, the tamahagane sword was a little out of my league because it would cost $795 to forge it. Now that isn't a bad price for a tamahagane sword considering that a real nihonto would cost double that or more.
kingrikoraru was right that Hollywood reimagined what type of sword the ninja (shinobi) used because from my understanding, historically there isn't any reference or depictions of ninja using a straight type katana (chokuto). They used curved blades like a shortened katana or a wakizashi in a katana saya. This is why I used the term chokuto because essenstially a chokuto is a single edged straight sword, of that's what wikipedia said anyway :-)
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