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Post by Smug Monkey on Feb 28, 2013 15:14:57 GMT
Hello all!
I wanted to take this oppurtunity to introduce myself. I grew up watching martial art films on the local cable channel every Saturday in the afternoon. I loved the mystique, the music, and the way these movies were filmed. These films took me away to a place I have never been before and filled my imagination with awe inspiring grandeur.
Flash forward some years and I am now 37. The imagination is still there but as is often the case, diminished.
I was watching Seven Samurai the other day and started daydreaming again. I have always been interested in Japanese swords but never really gave much thought to buying one as the swords seen at the local flea market or tourist trap stores while on vacation left much to be desired. I figured a quality Katana would begin in the $500+ ballpark. After watching 7S I got online and started to look at swords. I found this sight right away and discovered that I could own a very nice sword for very little money!
I was drawn instantly to the Musashi Shirakawa line. I tend to be very tight with my money and rally want to keep my first purchase below $100. If I enjoy the sword and the light cutting I intend to do with it I will more than likely want to pick up a nice Wakizashi sword to create a Daisho. I also really like Shirasaya's and Shikomizue's.
The other sword I was looking at is the Jubei Lion Dog. It seems to have all of the features of the Shirakawa line but with the possibility of better fittings and a potentially better heat treated blade. I have found some information online that says the Jubei blade cuts items that could potentially cause problems for the Musashi. I believe this is a newer sword and may not have the accolades of the longer tenured Shirakawa's but they look promising.
And with that I would like to know if there are any other swords out there I may have missed that could compete with the Musashi around the $100 price point? I have been fervently researching swords for the past 5 days and would love to hear some other suggestions if there are any.
I have been looking at True Swords the most and really like their selection as well as prices. I see there are quite a few of the Musashi Shirakawa's on their site. Are these all the same as the Bamboo Warrior only with different tsuba's, menuki, etc?
I am glad to be here and look forward to learning more about Japanese swords. The information can be quite overwhelming and I am having a hard time remembering the names of the sword parts. That is half the fun to me, however.
Mark
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 28, 2013 17:38:48 GMT
Hopefully some of the more experienced SBG Forum members will reply to your comments as well. I am a relative noob and, like you, I had a lot of questions and some preconceived prejudices to be aware of before I bought my katana. I did write a brief, noob review the same hour it was delivered by FedEx, which may be of benefit to you. You can find it here in the beginners area: My First Katana, FedEx just delivered! I engaged in several months of shopping foreplay before I pulled the trigger on Red Tomoe Flower of Carnage. Knowledgeable SBG Forum members guided me through almost every possible purchase option. Though I could have afforded to spend a lot more, I was looking for a good enough katana. Something I could build on and be able to customize as I became more sophisticated. Because of the way that katana are put together, it's relatively easy to swap out components and/or fittings. I'm one of those people who is intrigued by the art of the katana as well as the history & utility. As it turns out, I've met a SBG Forum member who promises to be a good mentor as he's been doing the same sort of thing. He's promised to teach me the basics of tsukamaki and he's carved some tsuka from scratch as well. I know a thing or two about metal patina & it's my intention to strip down and re-patinate some of the better cast brass, Chinese made repro tsuba available online. Even the Chinese reproduction tsuba have artistic merit. Anyway, as the new owner of a Musashi Shirakawa katana, which I purchased from SwordNArmory, I can highly recommend them. They're more than simply good enough. It's my understanding that the Jubei katana in the same price range as Musashi Shirakawa, which includes the Jubei Lion Dog are not significantly superior to the Musashi. In fact, according to published specs, they have a slightly softer ha or cutting edge than a Musashi shirakawa. Musashi shirakawa 55 Rockwell v. Jubei Lion Dog 53 Rockwell, though I'm not sure that's significant. Red Tomoe Flower of Carnage
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Post by Smug Monkey on Feb 28, 2013 18:57:17 GMT
Thanks for the info, Otto! I have read your review quite a few times over the past few days. It was one of the original threads that had me interested in the Musashi Shirakawa line of swords along with Paul's review and rating of the "Bamboo" in his Japanese Katana Reviews on the main page. Also, for your help, I have thrown a good karma your way! Thanks again, Mark
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 28, 2013 19:09:09 GMT
I'm pleased that my comments have been of some worth to you. Hopefully other, more experienced SBG Forum members will take the opportunity to provide comments & advice.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Feb 28, 2013 21:00:08 GMT
Welcome to SBG!
Both the Mushashi and Jubei are as good as it gets sub-$100. I wouldn't say that the fittings are better on the Jubei, but I was impressed with some little things like the shaping of the tsuka and the tightness/evenness of the ito. Saya is very plain, and not quite as visually appealing as some of the non-black Musashi ones(who at least paint them to look like they have proper fittings, hahaha). A few respected cutters have mentioned that the Jubei has a slightly tougher blade. I will mention that if you are only planning on light cutting, both are completely capable of such, and as such is the case, go for the one that really appeals to you. I'd recommend Swordnarmory to buy either through, though I've seen very positive experiences reported via Kult of Athena and True Swords when it come to the Musashi in case Swordnarmory doesn't have the one you want most.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 28, 2013 21:51:04 GMT
If you can go a couple of extra $ these are about $114 including shipping www.ebay.com.au/itm/HANDMADE-Japanese ... 1c26f2343b I have a couple as beaters and they just go from strength to strength.
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Feb 28, 2013 22:56:34 GMT
The eBay katana Ozzy Bunny refers to i being sold by Swordmaker688 who is generally considered one of the few reliable eBay sellers. The katana that's linked features a zinc alloy tsuba which are, to my way of thinking, essentially a slightly higher grade of pot metal. Likely the koshirae are also made of pot metal, er... I mean "high quality zinc alloy" But if you swap out the tsuba & koshirae for some of the cast brass or iron reproductions sold by ArtsFeng or one of the other online vendors, you'll have a jump on customizing your kat. I think Swordmaker688 also sells brass & iron tsuba on the side or exchange at additional cost. You could always ask him about that using the eBay msg system or email. Keep in mind that brass (75% copper 25% zinc) is heavier than iron. Either of these will change the POB (point of balance) of your katana. Some of the solid brass tsuba weigh close to 200gm while the iron ones come in about 2/3 of that weight for the same or similar design. Both of these can be refinished (stripped & repatinated) - I sorta dislike many of the repro tsuba factory finishes since they look a bit too "blingy" for my taste. If you were to strip off the fake gold & silver bling-ness & copper electroplate then apply a decent patina, you'll end up with a much more authentic look. BTW, the same can be said of the stock Musashi or Jubei steel tsuba but you'll have to strip & nickle plate them before you can copper electroplate. Copper electroplate will not "stick" to ferrous metals. For sure does make 'em pretty though.
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Post by chrisperoni on Mar 1, 2013 2:40:38 GMT
I gotta interject- Swordmaker688 garners mixed feelings around here. for the money that sword in the post above is fine, but I gotta figure the munetoshi and shirakawa have more consistent quality, better fittings (iron, not steel, not alloy). Pot metal and zinc alloy are the same thing (that is pot metal can be a zinc alloy- pot metal can be any cheap alloy) . I'm not trying to knock anybody who has posted , just giving another opinion. I like the folded steel on the 688, but it might not be of great quality at this price. Personally I'd buy from SnA over 688. edit/add- just noticed the watermark says swordsmith 688... this is one of the problems with these names on ebay. so many similar names, all seem to be the same guy or a couple of guys who now say they have nothing to do with each other, but maybe used to, and still use all the same stock pics. ? IMHO there is no single forge for any of these swords so quality cannot be confirmed with any consistency. That's why I like a seller who supplies from the same forge every time. SinoSwords does, Huawei does, Jubei/Munetoshi are related and consistent, Musashi changed their namee to Musha I think, but is still always supplies from the same forge. etc. etc.
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Mar 1, 2013 13:29:14 GMT
I never suggested that ANY eBay seller's offerings were preferable to Musashi and/or Munetoshi katana. It's only that Swordmaker688 has been reported as a reliable eBay seller though his offerings are not the best. I would never recommend any eBay katana especially the so-called "Collectable & Rare Japanese WW II Military Katana" and the like. The Nihonto Message Board guys have said that they have seen ONE (1) real Japanese sword come out of China in the past 4 years!
In any event, I did not mean to imply any recommendation of Swordmaker688 but Aussie Rabbit has some experience with him and posted a link to one of his eBay offerings. I simply sought to clarify & expand regarding the possibilities of making a silk purse (more or less) from a sow's ear.
Pot metal, btw is defined as any low melting point metal including alloys composed entirely of aluminum & lead!
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Post by Smug Monkey on Mar 1, 2013 16:10:54 GMT
I truely appreciate all of the information and suggestions! You sure do know how to make a guy feel at home... I have looked at various ebay sellers including Huawei Swords, but I have a hard time ordering anything overseas in case there is a potential problem. I like the fact that they offer customization of the Tsuba, Ito, Saya, etc. but I still cannot get past the potential problems that may arise due to language barriers and the long distance between ship points which could lead to killer shipping charges if a problem were to arise. Still, I appreciate the posting of any options that may help a "noob" sword consumer such as I. After all is said and done I will most likely be choosing between the Jubei Water Dragon or the Musashi Shirakawa series of swords. That is unless something else comes along during my research that catches my eye. Thanks again for everything, Mark
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Mar 1, 2013 17:15:55 GMT
My sincere advice, since both of those ~ the Musashi & the Jubei are both sold by SwordNArmory, I can heartily recommend them once you decide on what you want to buy. If this helps, the way I did my purchase is that I had my browser open to the web site and their eBay listing for the katana I wanted. Then I called them & did the transaction over the phone. They are real people, nice to deal with. I opened their address in Google maps & noticed that they're next door to the local Harley shop. Their eBay listing for the Musashi was priced $5 higher than the same sword on their web site but offered Free Shipping. I asked if I could take advantage of that and so, in essence I paid $5 for FedEx shipping between California & Wisconsin. I did the transaction about 3:15pm Pacific time and within an hour received tracking notification of my shipment from FedEx. I received my katana in slightly less than 4 days ~ FedEx ground and since you read my noob review, you know the rest.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 2, 2013 1:03:06 GMT
Howdy fellow ohioan! True swords has been good to order from so far for me. And have fun grab bags! anyways, they are located right next door in PA so you can expect your items really fast. Musashi's are good swords, I have yet to own a jubei though so cant really help compare.
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Post by johnwalter on Mar 2, 2013 4:50:03 GMT
Hello and welcome. Yes the shirakawa series are same blades with different koshirae,with one exception.Trueswords sells a nohi version. Between the Musashi and the Jubei,the Jubei is the better deal.Its a better heat treat and better fittings.
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