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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 16:03:02 GMT
Hello there everyone, I am new to the forum here. I have been browsing around for a bit and this site has been very helpful, and it has taught me so much about real swords and the difference between functional and display pieces, but I need some solid advice. I have had an interest in swords for quite some time and own a few cheap wallhangers, but I'm tired of cast metal, rat tail tangs, stainless steel and all that. I want something functional. Now to the point(pun intended): I'd like a European style sword, preferably sub $200-maybe $250 max. This is the one I have really been looking at. kultofathena.com/product~item~CS88GMS~name~Cold+Steel+Grosse+Messer.htmThe price is right, I like the look and style, and I think it would be cool to get a sword that goes with my German heritage . It got an excellent review on SBG, but this review here www.myarmoury.com/review_cs_mess.html has me just a bit worried. I think that the newer models apparently are a bit more streamlined and fixed some of the setbacks in the earlier version, but I'm wondering if this sword handles well or if it is cumbersome and unwieldy. I also would appreciate an opinion on how good of a choice this sword is for a first functional sword. Here are three others I have been looking at that, to my knowledge, have not been reviewed here. kultofathena.com/product~item~500928~name~Flared+Long+Sword.htmkultofathena.com/product~item~500802~name~European+Two+hand+Great+Sword.htmkultofathena.com/product~item~500800~name~15th+Century+Longsword.htmI'm wondering how these compare, and if any of them would be good choices for starting out. Thank you in advance, I'm sure someone here will be able to aid me in my quest for my perfect blade ~Darkhorse
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 16:23:12 GMT
Greetings, and welcome to the forum! I'm sure you'll find lots of info and helpful people to answer any questions you have. Now for the Gross Messer. It depends on what you're looking for. Historical accuracy? It doesn't score terribly high in that area. It's a little on the heavy side, and slow to recover. However, if you're just looking to cut something, then it would probably be a good choice. It had some problems a while ago with pommels falling off, which is a severe safety issue. This may have been on the older models, and the problem may have been fixed. However, I would advise you to purchase one from a reputable dealer, one with a fair return policy should something go horribly wrong. Kult of Athena is always a good choice, though there are other places to get it cheaper. As for the windlasses. Windlass has a reputation for having swords that are all over the place in terms of quality. Some are very good, and some suck. Their longer swords also have a tendancy to be "whippy", as well as some of their shorter ones too. I haven't heard anything about the flared longsword, or the Two hander, but we did have a review of the 15th century longsword. /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=1200410407&page=1 Final word? It's not a bad sword, but a little on the whippy side. Now, if you're looking for a sword with german connections, you may want to have a look at this: kultofathena.com/product~item~501058.htmIt's an affordable replica of a German sword held in the Schloss Erbach collection. One of our members has held the sword, and states that it is very nice, with a blade that is "springy" but not whippy. It sounds like a good sword. Anyhow, welcome, enjoy your time here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 22:25:40 GMT
ok for the grosse messer its 4-3.5 pounds but if weight is not an issue to you this is your sword it can basically cut anything and also on thebladeshop.com its 160$ shipped
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 0:16:16 GMT
Jason from AoV said they stopped carring the windlass two hander because it was just too whippy. Windlass tends to be kinda all over the place unfortunately. Although if your interested in the 15th cent or flared, AoV is having a 15% off till the end of this month on em.
As for the cold steel...umm you should take what myarmoury says with a grain of salt. They aren't use to sub 300 swords and are less willing to accept the drawback of those who can't afford albions and evan vance weapons. That said however, unless all you want the grossmesser for is to just cut thing, I wouldn't really recommend it. Even then if you get the older ones with the faulty pommel, then it's not even good for that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 1:52:57 GMT
Thank you for you help everyone. I did take a look at kultofathena.com/product~item~501058.htm and though I'm sure it is a good sword it is just a little too blah for me. The only visually interesting piece on it was the pommel. I'm now leaning away from the Grosse Messer, as I want a sword that is fun to wield and handles well. I'm starting to lean towards the Flared Longsword a bit, and I'll be looking into it and other European style swords a bit more before I make a decision. I'm open to any advice or recomendations. Again, thanks for the help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 2:01:23 GMT
I dont think the Grosse Messier could be overly terrible. Never liked that type of sword, but Cold Steel has overall a good rep. As long as you get a later model, you should be fine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 2:28:36 GMT
So are you looking at longswords only? The examples you have given are all longswords so I wonder if that is your only area of interest? Otherwise, the windlass type XIV sword is very fun and handles well (like any type XIV should). The gen 2 luceren and black prince handle like type XVa should as well.
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Post by salvatore on Feb 28, 2008 2:49:06 GMT
Welcome to the forum.
And the gross messer I think would be the best choice, if you are going for a functional piece.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 3:26:44 GMT
So are you looking at longswords only? The examples you have given are all longswords so I wonder if that is your only area of interest? Otherwise, the windlass type XIV sword is very fun and handles well (like any type XIV should). The gen 2 luceren and black prince handle like type XVa should as well. I am considering all European styles, but it is looking like I tend to have a keen interest in longswords. Thank you for mentioning the Luceren and Black prince, they both look like good candidates. There is also this www.sword-buyers-guide.com/irish-swords.html that really caught me eye. As far as long swords go, I think I'll be better off going with something from G2 Than trying my luck with Windlass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 4:40:25 GMT
What about the DSA katzbalger?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2008 7:06:30 GMT
The irish sword's handle is a bit on the round side so unless your familiar with using a grip like that, it might be worthwhile to have the AoV guys reshape it for you for better edge alignment if you plan on cutting a lot(or reshape and re-wrap your self if you have the skills and tools to). If you prefer that type of grip, then it's good to go...but I personally find it hard to get proper edge alignment with a grip like that.
Sal, that video is marketing tool by cold steel so I expect them to put their best foot fowward so to speak. That said, the cold steel grosse messer does in fact cut things very nicely...the trouble is that is ALL it can do. I have to agree with the myarmoury review of the handling characteristics of this weapon. It cuts...and if that is all you wanna do, it makes a perfectly viable weapon choice.
Ah the DSA katz...I like their hilt a lot...but that blade just looks bad to me. Then again, I generally don't like this style of sword so what'd I know hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 1:38:06 GMT
The irish sword's handle is a bit on the round side so unless your familiar with using a grip like that, it might be worthwhile to have the AoV guys reshape it for you for better edge alignment if you plan on cutting a lot(or reshape and re-wrap your self if you have the skills and tools to). If you prefer that type of grip, then it's good to go...but I personally find it hard to get proper edge alignment with a grip like that. Sal, that video is marketing tool by cold steel so I expect them to put their best foot fowward so to speak. That said, the cold steel grosse messer does in fact cut things very nicely...the trouble is that is ALL it can do. I have to agree with the myarmoury review of the handling characteristics of this weapon. It cuts...and if that is all you wanna do, it makes a perfectly viable weapon choice. Ah the DSA katz...I like their hilt a lot...but that blade just looks bad to me. Then again, I generally don't like this style of sword so what'd I know hehe. I have virtually zero experience handling real, battle ready swords so I really can't tell you what sort of grip would or would not be preferable. This is also what makes picking the right sword to start out with so hard . When the thought first even crossed my mind to consider getting a functional sword I envisioned it being as simple as finding a cool looking sword at a good price and the infamous red letters[Battle Ready] below or next to it. Then I stumbled upon this site, and I'm glad I did. They say the drunk man is happier than the sober man until his life falls appart. I guess the same can be said for the uninformed sword buyer until his sword does. Thanks to everyone for the help so far, I'm sure with a little patience and persistence I will find my sword.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 3:22:40 GMT
Well, if your new, I would suggest against round handles. It is easier to not notice where you edge is with a round handle...which means it's easier to badly flub a cut and seriously damage your sword. People who like round handles can use the rectangular/lenticular handles just fine...however the opposite isn't quite true . edit: Oh right remeber that AoV can reshape that handle for you if you like the look of that sword . Of course that does push it a bit above the 250 mark you set.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 3:42:28 GMT
Hmmm...makes sense. What about the Black Prince? It is simple, elegant, and really seems to have quite a good reputation. It seems to be very sturdy and stong yet with a newer version, very agile, and the fact that it comes sharpened and with a good sheath that has a shoulder strap is a plus for a beginner.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 4:06:04 GMT
I actually bought the black prince from AoV...with custom scabbard and reshaped handle to be more like the albion's agincourt handle. When I get it, I can let you know. But even myarmoury does say that the lucerne handle like it should. They just gripe about the fit and finish...which is why I actually decided to get this sword when AoV started doing their custom stuff . On a side note, the lucerne is generally a better longsword as it has a longer handle then the black prince. If you want a little more on your pommel, those add on they have is like 15 bucks and you can pick what you want on it. The black prince can't have the pommel add ons...which is why I stuck them on my scabbard . I personally liked the black prince with the shorter handle myself...but generally speaking...I'm weird .
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Post by salvatore on Feb 29, 2008 6:33:28 GMT
Lol, coldnapalm, isn't that what swords are for? It was made my coldsteel, then again, they do glorify everything. So I'll bite, what do you mean by "the trouble is that is ALL it can do"? Not trying to come off harshly or anything like that, just askin'
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 6:40:58 GMT
When you swing the bloody thing it basically commits you to the swing. I have swung axes and maces that were more agile then this sword. Hell I have trouble finding an axe or mace that is less agile then this sword. There is no defense, no second stroke...just a murderous one shot that you pray hits.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 13:33:28 GMT
thats true but i dont think any of us are going to war with them if you wanted to go out and chop some stuff up this would be the sword
also the black prince has a good rep but.......the lucrene has a bigger handle and more attractive in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2008 15:08:05 GMT
That's why I said if all your interested in is cutting stuff it's a viable weapon choice . The lucerne is a better sword for most people...I know it is. I just prefer the black prince personally (but I'm wierd)
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Feb 29, 2008 15:10:56 GMT
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=1199920252&page=1 Dont know if youve seen this one but it is my favorite of my collection. Very well balanced and fast.....though it might be a bit short for your tastes if you prefer a longsword.
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