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Post by jpfranco on Feb 9, 2008 21:31:02 GMT
I suspect that the "anti French" thing has to do with the Iraq question. As far as the FLEUR de LYS (not fluer ) it is not uniquelly a French symbol but a royalty one. I know it has been associated to France but history and archeological artefacts are full of Fleur de Lys symbolism that have nothing to do with France. And yes, this sword is beautiful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2008 21:37:42 GMT
Ahh, the Quebecer speaks out finally! ;D
I never understood the French/Iraq dislike. I mean, Canada didn't go to Iraq either, does that mean we suck?
Oh, and yes I've seen the Fleur de Lys on everthing from Italian nobles to English knights.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2008 21:43:58 GMT
If I remember correctly, the Fleur-di-lis was an image that I certain French noble saw in a dream of some sort. So it certainly does have French connatations.
Why dont we like the French? Let me count the ways... They took credit for saving us from the English in the Revoltuonary war (though they decided to show up after the fighting was almost over), they make us bail them out in both world wars, they all seem to hate us nonetheless, and now they wont help us in Iraq and give aid an comfort to the enemy.
But I like Sarkozy, BTW.
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Post by jpfranco on Feb 9, 2008 21:52:17 GMT
If I remember well, other nations(that would include my own nation CANADA) fought and helped free EUROPE, not just France during WWII. Also, France gave to the U.S. one of their most important symbol: The Statue of Liberty!!!!!!!! It is very sad to see when people claiming to love history decide to discard parts of it because it does not suit their needs anymore or because of a recent disagreement. Very sad indeed
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 2:30:51 GMT
that is one nice lookin sword ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 5:17:42 GMT
The fleur de lys tattoo was also used on British criminals by the French, not sure why.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 13:13:24 GMT
If I remember well, other nations(that would include my own nation CANADA) fought and helped free EUROPE, not just France during WWII. I apologize, I should have mentioned Canada as well. They fought bravely alongside our boys and the Brits. And I realize that you might not understand because you reside in Canada, but dislike of the French here in the states is pretty mainstream. And no statue can dissolve that.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 10, 2008 16:27:52 GMT
Actually, luke...no it's not pretty mainstream.
Just in rightwing politics of which roughly half of the united states isn't part of.
Unfortunately, we were GREATLY helped by the french in our revolution, and I'd go out on a limb saying if it wasn't for their help we'd not be here today. Secondly, the idea of everyone being equal under god in governemtn policy as well as life was started by none ofther than the great Voltaire. We drew our belief system as americans from the teachings of Voltaire as well as others like John Locke (english).
ww1: If not for the french stalwart defense, there's no question that germany would have one. NO question.
ww2: Just because the french gov't surrendered doesn't mean the people did. Ever heard of the resistance? They were responsible for a rather astonishing part of the war.
Iraq: Well 99% of the civlized world is against us in that policy. Saying you hate france is rather futilet, there are plenty of more worthy countries you could be hating. Freedom fries!
However, you've forgotten one of the principal french hating reason - which I have no defense of: The vietnam war.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 17:38:02 GMT
Never said I hated France, but rather that I have a dislike for their customs. We got financial aid from the French in the Revolutionary war, and slight military backing, mostly from their Navy. However, we certainly could have won without them, especially due to the amazing military abilities of the American South, which bashed the English up pretty good. I would say that Voltaire had minimal influence on the founding of our nation. Most of our founding fathers principles (im not gunna include Ben Franklin and Jefferson) came mostly from the Bible, and that is evident in the very pages of the constitution and decleration of independence. And, correct me if i'm wrong, Voltaire wasnt much for the French and actaully greatly preferred England, with their parliament and such. French stalwart defense? They defended, for certain, and for that I give them credit, but it cannot be avoided that without American help it is indeed possible that Germany would gave conquered them. The French Resistance is one of those things that is written so much about and everyone loves to make documenteries on it, and so forth. But the fact of the matter is it was rather limited in its effectiveness, and the fact that the French government surrendered should not be shrugged off as though it is nothing of importance. We saved them, along with Britain. And 99 percent of the civilized world? I find that hard to believe. Just because in the realm of leftwingpolitics this is an accepted fact far from makes it mainstream. And don't get me started on vietnam... lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 17:38:13 GMT
Just about every, if not every, country in the world have done things that are reprehensible. - any serious student of history knows this. It is beneath this forum, however, to make statements that are tantamount to racism.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 10, 2008 17:48:10 GMT
French isn't a race. It's a malignancy ;D ;D ;D
(Ok, totally joking...)
Britain did prety well without our help. To say the war was one due to america is rather full of ourselves. We played our part, but I contribute the fall of the axis powers to the battle of Stalingrad - just like any other ww2 military historian. Hitler overreached hiself, plain and simple. Other than that he was a brilliant strategist (even if he is hated).
Maybe not 99% but undoubtedly the majority. England is our staunchest ally but we don't have too many more. Israel would be in iraq alongside us if not for the ethnic disputes. But there's a reason why 70% of europans feel that the biggest threat to world stability is the current american gov't.
eg: If the american gov't was invvaded, surrendered, and destroyed by invaders, would you, a patriotic citizen, stop fighting? In that respect, gov'ts rarely represent their people. The french gov't surrendered but her people kept up the fight. And were successful.
ww1 was an unjust and uneeded war by anyone's viewpoint.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 18:03:16 GMT
Your right, Russia was the reason WWII was won. Thats an accepted fact. However, the US was the hair that broke the camel's back in the West.
To argue further about this would be rather useless, as I consider anything coming from most of Europe to be utter crap. We have different viewpoints, and its really not useful to keep this up.
France doesnt like the US, and, as a result, we don't like them. Its only natural. Nuff said.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 10, 2008 18:09:22 GMT
Speak for yourself. Much of America doesn't have harsh feelings towards them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 18:39:58 GMT
I like U.S.A.! Me the evil French...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 19:53:30 GMT
Didn't a lot of swords come out of Europe? Nevermind, arguing with fanatics is pretty worthless.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2008 0:24:17 GMT
I have friends all over the world and one of my really good friends is French. It is the Governments that make policy not the people. Though there are people from every country that deserve not to be liked.
A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane.
At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. "You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.
Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France!"
The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained. "Well, when I came ashore at OmahaBeach on D-Day in '44 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any damn Frenchmen to show it to."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2008 0:50:04 GMT
I have friends all over the world and one of my really good friends is French. It is the Governments that make policy not the people. Though there are people from every country that deserve not to be liked. A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane.
At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. "You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.
Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France!"
The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained. "Well, when I came ashore at OmahaBeach on D-Day in '44 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any damn Frenchmen to show it to."Oh thats a great story...+1 karma for you.
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Post by YlliwCir on Feb 12, 2008 1:03:24 GMT
I like France, they sent that nice Lafayette to help us with the revolution and gave us that cool statue.
I don't require my friends to always agree with me.
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Post by jpfranco on Feb 12, 2008 2:05:54 GMT
I have friends all over the world and one of my really good friends is French. It is the Governments that make policy not the people. Though there are people from every country that deserve not to be liked. A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane.
At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. "You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.
Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France!"
The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained. "Well, when I came ashore at OmahaBeach on D-Day in '44 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any damn Frenchmen to show it to."I wonder if this story applies also to the Bay of Pigs, Grenada and Iraq? ?? Out of the five beaches taken on June the 6th, 1944, 2 were British, one was Canadian and 2 American. I am a little tired of earing the liberation of France story. Other people gave their lives for freedom too, not just the G.I.'s.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 12, 2008 2:13:55 GMT
Wait wait wait wait wait....
Are you suggesting canadians are mortal?
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