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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 21:33:16 GMT
I'm looking for an elegant instrument of stabbity-death. I'm debating between Hanwei or Windlass. What do you folks think?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 21:50:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 21:55:24 GMT
Are you looking for a practical flexi-blade or a sharp pointy one? Do you fence rapier? If not, do you want to? Do you favor thrusts? Cuts? 50-50? What style hilt: cross, swept, clamshell, cup? What length blade? 36 inch, 40 inch, other? Hilts and blades on rapiers are often interchangeable. Here are some more options to consider from rapier specialists: www.darkwoodarmory.com/catalog.shtmlwww.jamesthejust.com/www.popinj.com/www.zenwarriorarmory.com/www.alcheminc.com/fencing.htmlYou are already familiar with Hanwei. Some competitive fencers do use their practical rapiers, but I consider them low quality compared to the list I just gave you. I don't know of anyone that uses Windlass Rapiers. The funny thing about Windless is that most of their sharps swords flex just as much as flexi-blades. If you put a rubber tip, with a washer inside, on their sword point you could fence with it given that their swords are not sold standard sharp. Darkwood is considered top of the line by most rapier fences. I prefer Alchems simple crosses.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 22:27:07 GMT
*Whistles*
Well, thank you Tsafa. Now I know how much I don't know. I've been looking for the equivalent of a beater rapier, one that I can practice stabbing into things without them snapping. I'm off to follow links!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 22:37:50 GMT
Here are my preferred instruments of death from Alchem: ![](http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/rapier/rapiers.JPG) I fight in the style of "case" using mostly thrusts. One has a 36 inch blade. It gives me more leverage. The other is a 40 inch blade for more reach. Both have 7 inch hilts and I often move my grip back and forth in the fight to keep changing the range and leverage. You will notice I don't have much hand protection. My hands are fast enough so I don't need it. Unlike most rapier fences, I don't finger the crossguard. I am am strong enough to hold the grip further back and still move fluidly. I usually grip it with my middle finger behind that second tier grip and my pinky against the pommol. Index finger relaxed over the first tier of the grip. I sometimes go all that way back and grip it by the pommol for the maximum 47 inch range on my longblade. I would not recommend these rapiers for a beginner or even intermediate. People will just pick at your hands. A swept hilt or a disk will offer better protection. But when you get really good, and you learn to spin your hand to block with the cross-guard, the rest of that stuff is just added weight. There are so many different way to fight rapier. Different swords favor different styles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 23:27:26 GMT
The Mortuary Hilt and Cromwell from Hanwei look awesome, but I've never owned any of their non-Asian blades. So I cannot say if they would be good for what you want or not ![:(](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 1:29:10 GMT
I'm thinking a swept-hilt would suit me best, for now. Thanks for your input, everyone! Oh and Tsafa-those double-ringed hilts are awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 2:39:46 GMT
And as to my original question, between Hanwei and Windlass, the answer is: NEITHER! Darkwood, for the win. I like their 3 ring swept II model. Thanks, Tsafa!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 5:00:22 GMT
Do you know what kind of blade you want on it? Sharp or practice? fullered? They'll put anything you want on it. You can mix and match: hilts, grips, blades and pommols. Down the road, if you get another Darkwood, you can switch pieces around.
You sure have some fine taste. Darkwood is considered top-shelf. It looks like that rapier is gona cost you about $415. Poor me only has $200 rapiers.
Your also going to want to start looking for a dagger or a buckler. A rapier is almost always used with an off-hand weapon. Practicing single is always recommended too, it maintains good blade work. Are you interested in learning to fence? I can try to help you find a rapier group in your area. They will drool when they see you Darkwood rapier.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 9:10:27 GMT
Well, it's more of a goal now than a definite purchase, since I have to save up some five-hundred dollars to pay for both sword and shipping. I live in Hawaii, and that can make life difficult. But yes, I do tend to have expensive tastes, which can get me in trouble sometimes. I'm more interested in learning about the WMA fencing instead of Olympic style. From what I understand, it's a far cry from how those weapons were actually used in a life-or-death duel. No, I don't intend to go about shanking anyone, but the idea of stripping away myth and falsities to reveal the oftentimes subtle and deadly aspects of WMA really excites me. Maybe Darksword Armory makes a rapier I should use. I don't know. It's the classic conundrum-I want the really awesome ones, but then reality rears its ugly head... Well, as long as I'm fantasizing here, I want a nice long fuller, and antiquated brass fittings... *Sigh*
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 13:12:07 GMT
Nobody fights Olympic style with a rapier, but a lot of the footwork is the same. Olympic is limited to linear movement, they have rules about right of way and don't use an off-hand weapon. The weapon they use resembles a car antenna, so it moves differently. However, the most important thing is the footwork, so Olympic fencing is not a bad place to start if that is the only option you have.
I'm not sure if by WMA you specifically meant Longsword. WMA is not limited to longsword, although many groups do limit themselves to just that form. The footwork there is different most of the time. They use mostly "passing steps" but they also learn "gathering steps", which is similar to the fencing steps.
It is better to start with just one form and later on you can learn more. Good luck in what you decide to do. I am glad I was able to offer some help along the way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 16:22:26 GMT
If you are looking at historical fencing manuals, you are looking at a oval-oid shaped blade, or "schlager". There are a few different types of manuals out there to go off of. I would recommend German, Italian or Spanish, depending on your use. German and Italian are fairly balanced, Spanish usually ends with the rapier buried to the hilt in the other guy (not good for competitive work), and French basically took the Italian and German manuals and stole stuff. For a decent starter book, I would recommend "Duelist's Companion" as it breaks down some of the more basic guards and styles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 16:39:02 GMT
Are you interested in learning to fence? I can try to help you find a rapier group in your area. They will drool when they see you Darkwood rapier. I'm interested! Any good ones in the Netherlands, as far as you know? (:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 19:15:27 GMT
Intrepid call Bart Orbons +31 (0) 36 5327699 Kantjilstraat 22, 1338 KE Almere email: archivist@drachenwald.sca.org Try to get all the info you can from him about what is going on in your area. He might be able to give you some other leads. Unfortunately, I don't see any listed practices in your area, but there may be unlisted ones.
It that turns into a dead end, we can try some people in Denmark or Belgium for leads. Do you spend any time in other parts of Europe?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 19:22:04 GMT
Tsafa! These are beautiful! ![](http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/rapier/rapiers.JPG) I looked around on Alchem's site, but I didn't see anything exactly like them. Were these customs or just older models?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 19:33:15 GMT
The grip is an older version but they can still do it even though it is not pictured on their site. The 36" was made a month ago for me. The 40" is more then a year old. A lot of the parts are interchangeable, so you actually do see the blade on some of their other hilts, or this hilt with a knuckle guard. Look at "Aguirre The Wrath Of God" bottom of www.alcheminc.com/cruciform.htmlTell them no knuckle guard and a black waisted grip and thats my rapier. The knuckle guard serves no purpose if you fight a thrusting style. If you want to make cuts you will need a wider blade. Everything is built to order. I also ordered the Meyer sword from Alchem. I plan to use it in my WMA practice. I have been waiting 6 weeks for that. It finally shipped out today. I should have it Sat or Mon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 19:52:30 GMT
Sweet! Thanks, Bill. Edit A karma to you, Bill. I've found myself in a sword rut lately. It seems fewer things have been appealing to me in the past month or so. There were a couple Gen2s, a couple Windlasses, and a few others I was quite fond of, but it just seems I've sort of lost interest in them. I can't explain it. ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Anyhoo, when I saw that pic of your Alchem rapiers, it made me stand up and take notice. THere's something really appealing in their simplicity and sleekness. I was on their site for quite a while today, and now I've basically figured out just what I want (just about identical to yours). I think I'll be ordering soon. So, thanks again. ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2007 5:51:37 GMT
Hmmmmm.....Darkwood has a very nice left-hander I could get interested in........
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2007 6:54:07 GMT
Thanks for the karma kriegschwert. I know what you mean about falling into a sword-rut. I have so many longswords and medieval single handed ones that after a while they all look too much the same... and you really can't fight with sharps in this day and age. Lately I have been mostly interested in fencing rapiers and medieval sword blunts that I can use to fight with. I am hoping my Meyer sword will be here tomorrow.
I'm looking forward to seeing what your final choice is. Jim Cook is the man at Achem who will take the order, cut the blade and put it all together. Be sure to tell him how you want the blade tempered. Medium for fencing or stiff if you want to put a real point on it.
If you pick a rapier like the one I have, you won't be disappointed. It is hard for me to recommend anything other because rapier fencers are very particular about the balance and grip. I have one cuphilt from Tripplet that I hate... other people love Tripplet. Tripplet is a very popular name in rapier fencing. When I was at Pensic I handled about 30 Darkwood rapiers. They were layed out like museum pieces on velvet. They have some of the most beautiful hilts I have ever seen and the fullers on the blades are gorgeous. Everyone was salivating over them... I saw one I liked but I was not in love with it. I walked a few booths over and I saw the Alchems stuffed in what seemed to be an umbrella basket. I went straight for the 40 inch you see in the picture. Its hilt was standing straight up out of the basket above all the others. I picked it up and it was like I had a Ferrari in my hand. The long hilt is almost like a 3 speed gear shifter. I can move my hand back and forth depending on what the road conditions are. I bought it in August and by October I decided I had to have another one with a 36 inch blade for my case fighting.
I mentioned it before and I'll say it again, you have to have fast hands to use a rapier like this. You are giving up hand protection in favor of extra range.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Dec 8, 2007 7:21:19 GMT
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