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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 10:28:36 GMT
Hello all! I'm new here, so I neatly posted in the newbie forum first. I don't know if any of you have heard of the Dutch city of Nijmegen? The oldest painters known from the Netherlands come from there ( example) and these days there's a festival build around those paintings every year. There's lots of reenactment groups participating. I'm in one of those groups, and I'm looking for a decent early 15th century sword to accompany me. It's for reenactment, but I'm actually looking for a full-contact sword, just for the reality factor, which I think is very important. I'd like to use it outside of the event as well. I took a look at several sites. Although I'm a History student, but I'm not really knowledgeable about these kind of things. I liked the Dark sword Knight sword, but that's 14th century and I'm not sure if it'll fit in, even though the event is early 15th century. I will probably be accompanying a Burgundian Duke. Would any of you have an idea as to what kind of sword a Burgundian man-at-arms would use? Perhaps even a rapier during these times? If this is too vague, feel free to ask me for more information.
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 12:27:42 GMT
How "hardcore" are you on historical accuracy?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 12:29:28 GMT
www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-burgundian-xviii.htmA man at arms would have been carrying a french polearm or a spear because the sword, regardless of what hollywood would have you believe, was not very common because of how exacting they were to make. The above sword is a burgundian weapon and if you have the money albion is the way to go. Welcome to the forum Also with the dark sword blade, depending on the contact with england and the wars at the time it is quite possible that a man at arms might have taken a sword as the spoils of war. Having shown his valour in battle the duke took him on as a bondsman and that is how he has an english sword The dark sword knightly is fairly typical of swords of that area up until about the 16th century i believe it was.
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 12:33:50 GMT
THAT is untrue. Well, it's technically untrue, depending on what era we're talking about. Starting in about the 14th c. swords became more and more widespread to the point where generally any man-at-arms could afford one. This was due to a variety of reason, but one of them for certain was the lack of effectiveness of the sword at this point in time. Sure, it was still a good, solid weapon, but it had issues dealing with armour and was a pain to maintain and use.
So certainly by the 15th c. swords would not be uncommon at all.
(I'm trying to find you an arma essay where they address this)
As the the albion, it is a very beautiful sword. Except there's one probem - it's not out in production yet, nor will it be for possible 2 years or more!
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 12:43:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 13:30:17 GMT
Thank you for the replies.
Rammstein - I am pretty hardcore on historical accuracy. The group I'm part off specializes in costumes and make them as authentic as they can. Although they might not even notice details, I'm pretty sure they can tell if it's a 15th century sword. Even if they couldn't, I'm enough of a buff myself to want it to be as accurate as possible.
bloodwraith - That is perfect, haha. Maybe, just maybe, the group will get a subsidy from the organization of the festival, but even if they did I doubt they'd be willing to spend so much money on a sword. It *is* really nice though.
I hadn't mentioned that - my price range is up to about 300 US, maybe a tad more since the Euro-Dollar course is favorable for import for us. So at most 300 Euro.
Spears are an option as well, as are polearms. Any of those you could recommend?
Glad you think the Dark Sword one is an option. I really like that one.
Edit: That's an interesting article, Rammstein. It also adresses the 'bending' test that is used on SBG as well. According to this article, that's a bad test and proves nothing. You guys agree with that?
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 14:46:42 GMT
I don't agree with it 100%, but I do agree to an extent. All things in context, however, when Paul (or shootermike, or me, or anyone else who does a review for this site) bends a sword, we're not trying to pass it off as a good sword because of the temper. At this price range, we're just trying to show it has a temper at all! Imagine "bla bla bla, this sword is fantastic, it's amazing, no sword could ever compete with it - Oh, and did I mention it's not tempered?" - ;D Personally I don't feel darksword is an option if you want historical accuracy. You're in Europe correct? I think your abslute BEST bet is Lutel - www.lutel.cz/Lutel makes some exceptionally fine swords for an absolutely unbeatable price. Only bad thing is that they're in europe - which is a plus for you As for darksword, I could go into length as to why I don't think any of their swords would be wholy appropriate (except for 1 or 2 that I can think of off the top of my head now....), but that doesn't mean they are bad swords at all. edit: As for spears, take a look at www.armor.com - they're the best in the business as far as I know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 14:57:23 GMT
As for darksword, I could go into length as to why I don't think any of their swords would be wholy appropriate (except for 1 or 2 that I can think of off the top of my head now....), but that doesn't mean they are bad swords at all. Please do elaborate, as the review of the Knight sword on the SBG site was very positive. Lutel makes some exceptionally fine swords for an absolutely unbeatable price. Only bad thing is that they're in europe - which is a plus for you Yeah, that is a plus. Heck, I could even go and get it myself, haha. It's a decent trip to the Czech Republic, but possible. There was one sword that was reviewed very well on the SBG. Are most of their swords comparable? Also, most of their swords are Central European swords. Is that OK for Burgundy?
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 15:05:44 GMT
It probably won't be noticable from the distance, but the knight's gaurd is just far too overbuilt. Also, the handle seems too "bloated" and doesn't have the same shape and look historical swords. This may be due to overlarge risers, but still....
I'm being VERY critical for the sake of hardcore accuracy. Another thing - while portraying the 15th c. The Knight ( an early 14th c. sword by my books) would be well out of place.
I'm going to go check Lutel now, I'll be back with some answer on that.
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 15:14:10 GMT
here's the ones I see that should work very well (remember, give at LEAST 50 years of swing between any dates given...there is no such thing as a set time period for sword. Yes, you won't find a rapier in 10th c. scandinavia, but you can't truly pinpoit a date. They are all just approximations)
15009 - seems late 14th to mid 15th to me (site says late 15th) 15018 - I'm not sure of the extremes, but your time period certainly falls into it 12020 - rather ambiguous design that could span a century depending on how you want to portray yourself with it 12025 - Might be a bit too german for your tastes, but it certainly wasn't uncommon to find solingen made blades even as far as scotland. German blades were quite widespread 12029 - again, that one might work too.
Those are the swords I'm pretty sure on. There are others but I can't give you a solid opinion on them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2007 15:20:19 GMT
We're certainly on the same page here, I love every sword you've mentioned. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in price between swords - aren't the hand and a half swords much bigger than the single handed ones? Edit: What about a falchion? Picture. Or is that 'beneath' a Ducal guard?
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Post by rammstein on Nov 11, 2007 15:35:28 GMT
I don't think a falchion is "beneath" anyone. Many, many knights were known to use it. However, I was under the impression (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that falchions were popular a several decades earlier...however, it wouldn't be out of place during the early 1500's. Besides, if someone comes and asks you "hey, were't falchion's a bit earlier?" you'd have a nice little topic on conversation and you can go on about how you prefer the weapon, having never been able to get into the longswords that your compadres use. Or, maybe you were too poor to afford a more modern sword and instead you use your falchion handed down to your family for half a century. All sorts of interesting stories pop up I'm not sure why they're priced similar,actually...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2007 20:20:14 GMT
www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-burgundian-xviii.htmA man at arms would have been carrying a french polearm or a spear because the sword, regardless of what hollywood would have you believe, was not very common because of how exacting they were to make. The above sword is a burgundian weapon and if you have the money albion is the way to go. Welcome to the forum Also with the dark sword blade, depending on the contact with england and the wars at the time it is quite possible that a man at arms might have taken a sword as the spoils of war. Having shown his valour in battle the duke took him on as a bondsman and that is how he has an english sword The dark sword knightly is fairly typical of swords of that area up until about the 16th century i believe it was. That Albion will be beautiful sword but it is rather mid 15th century (I saw similarly designed authentic swords from about 1450-1460).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 2:19:27 GMT
I don't know if any of you have heard of the Dutch city of Nijmegen? Fellow WWII history buffs will also recognize Nijmegen as the site of Operation Market Garden in 1944. Didn't turn out as well for the Allies as expected, but it did make plenty of headlines.
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Post by rammstein on Nov 13, 2007 2:34:41 GMT
Karma, Krieg (or karma when I get my comp working right again) I was thinking the same thing too, but I hesitated on posting. Operation Market Garden (made famous by the movie "A Bridge too Far" I believe (that's the name, is it not)) is quite possible one of the most interesting happenings in World War II. I'm glad you caught that too my creepy old friend
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 2:52:24 GMT
Karma, Krieg (or karma when I get my comp working right again) I was thinking the same thing too, but I hesitated on posting. Operation Market Garden (made famous by the movie "A Bridge too Far" I believe (that's the name, is it not)) is quite possible one of the most interesting happenings in World War II. I'm glad you caught that too my creepy old friend Yes, that was the theme of that movie. Man, I haven't seen that one in at least 20 years. WWII history is another hobby of mine, so when I saw the name Nijmegen, I had to respond (not to mention that my dad's ancestry is primarily Dutch/German). Nijmegen also suffered some terrible Allied bombing, due (to most historical sources) to the chaos in the air over that part of Europe at the time (very close to Germany, etc.).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 7:57:00 GMT
You're right Krieg. The centre of Nijmegen is very modern, as it has been rebuild after WWII. There's a lot of old stuff that remained standing, fortunately.
You guys have to watch Band of Brothers as well, if you're in to WWII or the Netherlands in particular. Very good scenes shot in Holland, including good Dutch actors and properly spoken Dutch, hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 18:30:20 GMT
Definitely! I have the DVD box set of Band of Brothers. Wonderfully done.
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