Regenyei, Knightshop, Purpleheart wooden & Pentti longswords
Dec 10, 2012 2:56:14 GMT
Post by Federico on Dec 10, 2012 2:56:14 GMT
Introduction
I’ve been practicing HEMA at the Arte Dimicatoria group in Montreal for about two years and a half. I have mostly trained in the Fiore dei Liberi’s system, but have also trained in Joachim Meyer’s system for about 6 months. Basically, these are the training tools that saw me through my learning, all of which I’ve put through their paces. Here we go!
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
This one was bought as a group purchase through Arte Dimicatoria. I remember paying 75$ + more or less 20$ for shipping and handling. We got these directly from Purpleheart Armory. This was my first waster (purchased about 2 years ago), so I don’t remember how long it took for it to get here, but it was fairly fast (I had it within a month). I didn’t deal with them directly as I wasn’t in charge of the group purchase, but the person in charge never had any problems with them, and their service is apparently excellent. Today, you can get these for 70$ + shipping/handling from Purpleheart Armory.
www.woodenswords.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1820
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This one was also bought as a group purchase (purchased about 8 months ago). I paid 110$ with the shipping and handling included. We got these directly from Knightshop in the UK, and we got a better price because we ordered in bulk. We also received them within more or less a month. You can get these for 47 pounds at Knightshop, although they’re carried pretty much everywhere.
www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/rawlings-proline-xtreme-sparring-long-sword-p-3244.html
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
These were also bought as a group purchase fairly recently (about 2 months ago). Paid 125$ with shipping and handling, directly from Purpleheart Armory. They go for the same price today.
www.woodenswords.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TYPE-III-50
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
This was not a group purchase. I wanted my own steel feder as I was tired of borrowing swords. I purchased it through Keith Cotter-Reilly and his online store, Wild Geese Fencing, about 3 months ago. I paid 315$ + 25$ for shipping and handling. I got it within 2 months (but you can get them faster if he has them in stock). I dealt directly with Mr. Cotter-Reilly, and he’s a gentleman who replies quite fast and is very helpful.
wildgeesefencing.com/?product=pear-pommel-wide-schilt
Historical overview
There’s not much to be said here. All these swords seek to simulate longswords from the late 14th century to the 16th century. Both synthetic swords have no historical pedigree whatsoever. Their makers never claim they do though.
The Purpleheart wooden sword is a modern iteration of a widely used training tool, the ageless wooden waster. I don’t think it’s based on any surviving historical example though (and I don’t think many survived, given that wood wastes away). You can read an interesting article on the historicity of wooden wasters here: www.thearma.org/essays/wasters.htm. It’s written by John Clements from the ARMA.
As for the Regenyei Feder, it’s rooted from the federschwerts from the 16th – 17th century pictured in many fighting manuals. I think Mr. Regenyei took some unhistorical liberties in the design, like the turned tip and a blade with a lot of profile taper, but he wasn’t copying a specific historical surviving example. You can read a very interesting article by Roger Norling from the HROARR on historical federschwerts right here: www.hroarr.com/federschwert-or-a-blunt-longsword/. It has some very interesting pictures of historical feders.
Full Disclosure
I’m not connected nor related to any of these sword’s makers. I can’t say I’m an experienced fencer, but I have been practicing regularly (about 3-4 hours a week) for the past two years and a half at the Arte Dimicatoria HEMA group. My opinions are not Arte Dimicatoria’s though, and their members may or may not agree with my views of these trainers. I fence mainly with the longsword, as it’s my favorite weapon. Other than the weapons listed on this review, I have handled and fenced with some other local wooden wasters, the Knightshop baskethilt sword simulator, the Hanwei Tinker longsword blunt simulator, the VA I-beam longsword, the Albion Meyer and Liechtenauer trainers and a ring hilted A&A Fechterspiel.
Initial Impressions
Sorry guys, but there was no unpacking here. Besides, these trainers don’t really shine through their looks.
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
I got this a while ago, so my first impressions are vague. I do remember thinking that it was a fairly elegant waster, feeling quite solid and with a nice grain in the wood. I also remember that during dry handling, it felt like a baseball bat. More to come…
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
The first time I handled this waster, I remember it feeling quite light. The reason I ordered it with the steel guard was to give a more sword like behavior, but it was still a tad light. Also, the blade had a slight warp to it, and was fairly flexible, maybe a tad much (although stiffer than a previous generation that I had tried that felt like a banana). The steel guard came with the matte finish, and I find the stainless steel one more elegant. Overall, it kind of looked like a toy.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Not a very pretty sword, although the handling surprised me. It felt pretty agile and fast. The grip looked kind of cheap (basically some sort tape put directly on the plastic). Much stiffer blade than the Rawlings though. It screams modern and machined.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
First impression? Woaahh, this thing is huge! My second impression was the utilitarian and austere look on it. No frills design, no decoration, just a training sword. And then, I picked it up. Oh mama. The handling. Despite the size, this feder is lighting fast and wieldy. The long handle feels a bit strange at first, as I’m accustomed to gripping my pommel, but you quickly get used to the extra leverage it provides. You will notice that I’ve gun blued the fittings.
Statistics
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Overall length: 48 inches
Blade: 37 inches
P.O.B.: 9 inches
Handle length: 7 inches
C.O.P.: lol
Weight: 2 pounds 3.7 ounces
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
Overall length: 49 inches
Blade: 38 inches
P.O.B: 4 ¾ inches
Handle length: 7 ¾ inches
C.O.P.: 24 inches
Weight: 2 pounds 6.7 ounces
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Overall length: 48 3/4
Blade length: 37
P.O.B: 2 1/3 inches
Handle length: 8 ¾ inches
C.O.P.: 22 ¾ inches
Weight: 2 pounds 10.7 ounces
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
Overall length: 52 1/3 inches
Blade 39 4/10 inches
P.O.B: 3 1/8 inches
Handle length: 10 inches
C.O.P.: 23 3/4
Weight: 3 pounds 3 ounces
Components
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
The Blade
The blade on this waster is fairly thick and heavy. No distal taper and a little profile taper. It also has a decorative fuller going down 2/3’s of the blade, with a short ricasso. The tip is round, and so are the edges, which are as thick as the blade. It’s extremely stiff. However, it’s very durable, although it requires some maintenance. You need to oil it with some kind of vegetal oil (I used canola oil) about once every month. Otherwise, the wood will dry and will crack, leading to catastrophic and potentially dangerous failures during use (we had one cracking into two pieces, both shaped like long spikes, yikes!). The “tang” is just the blade continuing and turning into the handle.
The Handle
A simple wooden handle with the corners rounded off. Pretty comfortable. It tapers down towards the pommel.
The Guard
A very thick wooden guard, held in place by a single central peg. Since it only has one peg, it will sometimes get slightly loose. We never had one failing on us though, so it’s quite solid. The downside of the thickness is that it can get on the way of certain techniques.
The Pommel
A pretty simple pear like pommel. Ground out from a different piece of wood than the handle, but it can’t be removed. A very comfortable design if you enjoy gripping the pommel as I do.
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This sword allows you to mix and match pommel/guard combinations, and I describe my favorite one below.
The Blade
A black blade with a polished plastic finish. It emulates a diamond cross section. It has a fair amount of both distal and profile taper, and the tip is round. The edges are also round, and only slightly thinner than the blade. It’s somewhat slippery, and also somewhat flexible. Unfortunately, they get more flexible over time. The tang is a piece of the same plastic continuing down, with a long steel screw threat going through it and inside the blade. I’m not sure how far down the blade this screw goes, but it probably goes down at least a third of the blade, as the blade tends to flex mostly on the last third.
The Handle
The handle is made out of a hollowed out piece of rubberm which tapers down towards the pommel. It lacks the stiffness of a piece of wood, which causes some pretty bad problems that I will describe below. It has a somewhat ovaloid profile, which makes edge alignment easier.
The Guard
You can pick between the plastic and the metal guard. I recommend the metal guard, even though it’s heavier than a typical longsword guard (but this helps balance out the sword). The plastic guard is somewhat flexible, which is not something you want if you parry an attack with it. Also, it makes the sword handle like a toy, given the lightness of the overall setup, making for a poor simulator. A metal guard makes it feel closer to a real sword. Since it’s made of stainless steel, it doesn’t rust.
However, a metal guard has a big downside. Since this sword is held together through the compression of a screw on pommel and the handle is made out of rubber, a rattle quickly develops with the guard. Every time you catch a blade with it, it bites into the plastic tang, slightly denting it. After a while, it weakens it, and the inner steel screw thread snaps at about an inch down the guard. This is not a freak event, but rather a common and almost inevitable occurrence. We used two of these swords extensively, and both broke in the exact same manner exactly 14 months after purchase. I’ve JB welded my guard into place to avoid this issue.
The Pommel
A plastic screw on pommel. I find it quite comfortable, as it lends itself naturally to gripping. Probably the most comfortable of the bunch, as the plastic seems to absorb some of the impact from your palm. A steel version is also available, but combined with the steel guard, it makes for a weird hilt heavy sword. Combined with a plastic guard, it creates a sword with 0 blade presence. Awful combination. Finally, there’s also a long plastic version. I’ve only tried it a few times, and it isn’t bad. Good for those who like really long handles.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
The Blade
The blade is rectangular, with both distal and profile taper. It begins with some sort of ricasso. The tip has a swelling where it gets thicker, and it’s rounded off. The edges are also rectangular, but with rounded off machined corners. I say machined because they seem to be ridged. This has an impact that I will describe below. This blade is stiffer than the Rawlings, but not excessively.
The Handle
It’s just the same piece of plastic going down. It has a rectangular rounded off profile, with the corners rounded off as well. It’s shaped in a somewhat ovaloid fashion, having a swell in the middle. It’s covered by some sort of black/plastic tape, which is neither pretty nor durable (one of the earlier ones we got is already half stripped off). However, it doesn’t really affect the handling, and the fact it’s made out of plastic makes it comfortable.
The Guard
A simple metal rod going through the base of the blade, with some plastic tips to avoid injuring your partners. It’s held together with a tiny metal peg. So far it’s pretty solid, and we’ve had no failures yet, although it tends to rust relatively fast and sometimes develops a rattle after some use (mine is so far rattleless). I’ve read and seen some reports of the sword failing at the guard/blade junction, but we haven’t had it happen yet.
The Pommel
A machined stainless steel pommel, of screw on design. Comfortable as well, although I find that the lower round ridge will sometimes transfer the impact of the strikes into your pommel if you grip it, which can be quite painful.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
The Blade
A VERY long blade, with a rectangular cross section. It has a wide schilt at the base, and then goes down towards the tip with a rectangular shape. Not very thick either, starting at about 4 mm (sorry, my measuring tape is more accurate in the metric system) and ending at 2 mms before the rounded tip. It also 2.4 cms wide right after the schilt, finishing at 1 cm. The edges are rounded. The blade has some flexibility, although it’s stiffer than an Albion Meyer. It has faced Albion Meyers, a VA I-beam and a A&A Fechterspiel, and the edges hold up very well (unlike the Hanwei Tinker which had to be retired after a month facing the Albions). The rounded tip is interesting, as it diffuses the impact of thrusts, making it safer. I don’t know of any historical equivalents.
The Handle
The handle is also very long, with a similar shape to the Pentti, but with the corners actually completely rounded off, and with more taper towards the pommel. It’s made out of wood, covered with a fabric string. The fabric is holding up well so far. I did notice a small click sometimes inside of the handle, so it may or may not be cracked, but it feels solid and the click causes no problem as of now. Comfortable as well, but the length required some time to get used to it. Gripping the pommel becomes almost impossible in some maneuvers, so it encourages you to shift your left hand up and down.
The Guard
Nothing fancy here. A relatively thin and square guard, ending in two rounded bulges. You can get it with either 28 or 25 cms of width, but I chose the 25 cms one (I find that swords with a really wide guard sometimes get in the way of your maneuvers, but it’s a matter of personal preference here). Solid, with no rattle. A fencing partner owns a similar sword, and his has developed a small rattle though, given the compression construction. Mine is still very solid.
The Pommel
A simple steel pear shaped pommel. Relatively small, but given that it’s pear shaped and without ridges, it’s more comfortable than the Pentti’s. It doesn’t bite the palm, and lends itself well to gripping. The pommel is peened.
Handling Characteristics
Before I begin, I’ll state my physical characteristics. I’m 5’7, and I weigh 162 pounds. I’m relatively strong for my size, as I work out several times a week. With these caveats in mind, let’s begin!
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Oh lord. There’s a reason why I haven’t used this waster for about a year. First of all, the first impression of a baseball bat proved to be true, again and again. With a P.O.B. of 9 inches, it feels extremely blade heavy. Given the blade heaviness, it’s quite sluggish and slow. There’s no finesse here, and quick maneuvers are difficult to pull off. The weight is also problematic for the shoulders, and I would often end up with a sore upper back (and I’m in fairly good shape). It strikes like a freight train, so you constantly have to pull your hits. It’s also very stiff, so the energy of the strike is “dissipated” by your opponent’s body. I remember that sparring with these simply sucked, as you would always get bruises, swelling and sometimes micro fractures. The stiffness also makes thrusting very dangerous (yet fencing without thrusting is not fencing). Basically, you need at least as much protective equipment as with steel swords, if not more. You can seriously hurt someone with these, and I think they are weapons in their own right.
In the bind, given the stiffness, reading what your opponent does is not easy, but not impossible, so it allows you to work there. However, the blade and the guard’s thickness once again make finesse complicated.
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This is the archetype of the Purpleheart wooden wasters. It feels light, almost toylike. The sword version of the M-16 . Very very fast trainers, and the flexibility of the blade dissipates a lot of the energy of the strikes. A very agile trainer. It’s also quite safe, as very hard strikes will sting and maybe bruise, but unless you’re really trying to, it’s difficult to get injured by these. I’d say they’re quite fun, and other than a mask, some hand and throat protection, you can go at it with these without much gear. Good for those times when you feel like going all out in a lightning fast bout. Also good for long sessions, as they’re not as demanding on the shoulders as a heavier weapon. It’s not all good though, as the lightness can make you develop bad habits, and the flexible blade will sometimes help you score hits that you normally wouldn’t (along the lines of lobbing a blade around your opponent’s parry, à la Underworld, but with swords).
The experience is inferior in the bind. Indeed, the “polished” plastic surface makes the blade slip and slide as if there was detergent on the blades. Also, the flexibility makes reading the bind really hard, as you get no feedback. This leads to skipping this essential area of longsword fencing altogether.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Handling is this blade’s strong point. It’s quite fast and responsive, albeit maybe slightly hilt heavy. It does have good tip control though. Unlike the Knightshop, it feels like an actual steel sword. The stiffer blade and the extra weight help in that regard. It also comes with some consequences. Stiffer blade equals less energy dissipated, and therefore, despite having a bit less blade presence, it hits harder than the Knightshop. It also means that you must thrust with care. Therefore, you need some sort of protection for the bony ends of your body (forearms and elbows come to mind). They tend to sting less than the Knightshop though, but they bite more. You need to be careful with pommel strikes with this one, as the steel pommel is big and could cause injury (just like a real sword).
In the bind, this sword is actually…fine! The stiffer blade gives good feedback, and the machined ridged corners of the blade create some kind of friction when the blades slip on each other. I don’t know if this is part of the design or simply a consequence of the production methods, but it improves the experience, allowing you to work there. Finally, the thin guard doesn’t get in the way, but it does force you to properly align your quillons when you parry. Otherwise, you may get some hits on your hands.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
I’ve left the best for the end. I just love this sword’s handling. Sure, it’s long, but it handles marvelously. For those of you that have handled these other Feders, I’d say that it’s slightly less blade heavy than the Albion Meyer and the A&A Fechterspiel, and a lot less blade heavy than the Albion Liechtenauer. It’s difficult to explain, but this translates into a sword that you actually control through the pommel and left hand as opposed to your leading hand, and lends it a lot of tip control. The combination of the distal and profile taper and the big schilt make it a low polar moment feder, as lot of its weight is concentrated in the guard. Therefore, despite the length, it’s fast. The long handle gives you a lot of leverage as well, and makes some pommel hooking maneuvers easier (but as a downside, it opens you to opponents grabbing the handle or using hooking maneuvers on you). The long blade allows you to keep your opponent at bay, making for a good weapon for those who enjoy sniping . Finally, the blade’s proper stiffness means that it’s not whippy at all. I would put its handling on par with the Albions and A&As (but different), and above the VA. It goes without saying that you need to be fully equipped to spar with these (a padded vest/gambeson, good protective gloves, some forearm & elbow protection, fencing mask and throat protection).
In the bind, it behaves quite well. Again, the proper stiffness means it provides good feedback, and the thin guard doesn’t get in the way and yet, the schilt protects your hands.
This sword just feels right. For the price, it’s hard to beat.
Conclusions
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Pros
- Very durable
- Inexpensive
- Elegant
Cons
- Sluggish handling
- Very stiff
- Feels dead in the hand
- Hits like a freight train
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
Pros
- Fairly priced
- Very safe
- Decent handling (outside of the bind)
Cons
- Serious (but fixable) durability issues
- Unresponsive in the bind due to flexibility
- Looks like a toy
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Pros
- Good handling
- Fairly priced
- Durable
- Good feedback in the bind
Cons
- Ugly
- The grip tape falls apart
- Requires protection for bony ends
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
Pros
- Great handling
- Solid construction & durable edges
- Great feedback in the bind
- Great value for the money
Cons
- Pricier than some trainers (but miles away in terms of quality)
The Bottom Line
Would I recommend a Purpleheart Wooden Waster? No. Sure, they’re cheap, but they make fencing a chore and they ruin your shoulders. Just try to do some free play with them, and once you’re on the receiving end, you’ll understand.
How about the Knightshops? I would recommend them for those who are on a tight budged and can’t afford some protective gear, as they are quite safe and handle decently. However, you need to fix the guard securely in place. Otherwise, you’ll end up with a broken sword.
The Penttis are superior synthetic trainers in my view. They allow you to practice all aspects of fencing and are also reasonably priced. They don’t require too much protective gear (but more than the Knightshops). If you can’t or won’t use a steel trainer, these are the way to go. Recommended.
And finally, the Regenyei Feder. Compared to an Albion or an A&A, it’s much more reasonably priced. It handles just as well, and so far, it seems to be just as durable. Also, if you order through the Wild Geese Fencing store, the delivery time is way better than the two above trainers. Sure, this isn’t the one you’ll notice at the ball, but as a training tool, this one will keep you dancing all night long.
I’ve been practicing HEMA at the Arte Dimicatoria group in Montreal for about two years and a half. I have mostly trained in the Fiore dei Liberi’s system, but have also trained in Joachim Meyer’s system for about 6 months. Basically, these are the training tools that saw me through my learning, all of which I’ve put through their paces. Here we go!
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
This one was bought as a group purchase through Arte Dimicatoria. I remember paying 75$ + more or less 20$ for shipping and handling. We got these directly from Purpleheart Armory. This was my first waster (purchased about 2 years ago), so I don’t remember how long it took for it to get here, but it was fairly fast (I had it within a month). I didn’t deal with them directly as I wasn’t in charge of the group purchase, but the person in charge never had any problems with them, and their service is apparently excellent. Today, you can get these for 70$ + shipping/handling from Purpleheart Armory.
www.woodenswords.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1820
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This one was also bought as a group purchase (purchased about 8 months ago). I paid 110$ with the shipping and handling included. We got these directly from Knightshop in the UK, and we got a better price because we ordered in bulk. We also received them within more or less a month. You can get these for 47 pounds at Knightshop, although they’re carried pretty much everywhere.
www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/rawlings-proline-xtreme-sparring-long-sword-p-3244.html
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
These were also bought as a group purchase fairly recently (about 2 months ago). Paid 125$ with shipping and handling, directly from Purpleheart Armory. They go for the same price today.
www.woodenswords.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TYPE-III-50
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
This was not a group purchase. I wanted my own steel feder as I was tired of borrowing swords. I purchased it through Keith Cotter-Reilly and his online store, Wild Geese Fencing, about 3 months ago. I paid 315$ + 25$ for shipping and handling. I got it within 2 months (but you can get them faster if he has them in stock). I dealt directly with Mr. Cotter-Reilly, and he’s a gentleman who replies quite fast and is very helpful.
wildgeesefencing.com/?product=pear-pommel-wide-schilt
Historical overview
There’s not much to be said here. All these swords seek to simulate longswords from the late 14th century to the 16th century. Both synthetic swords have no historical pedigree whatsoever. Their makers never claim they do though.
The Purpleheart wooden sword is a modern iteration of a widely used training tool, the ageless wooden waster. I don’t think it’s based on any surviving historical example though (and I don’t think many survived, given that wood wastes away). You can read an interesting article on the historicity of wooden wasters here: www.thearma.org/essays/wasters.htm. It’s written by John Clements from the ARMA.
As for the Regenyei Feder, it’s rooted from the federschwerts from the 16th – 17th century pictured in many fighting manuals. I think Mr. Regenyei took some unhistorical liberties in the design, like the turned tip and a blade with a lot of profile taper, but he wasn’t copying a specific historical surviving example. You can read a very interesting article by Roger Norling from the HROARR on historical federschwerts right here: www.hroarr.com/federschwert-or-a-blunt-longsword/. It has some very interesting pictures of historical feders.
Full Disclosure
I’m not connected nor related to any of these sword’s makers. I can’t say I’m an experienced fencer, but I have been practicing regularly (about 3-4 hours a week) for the past two years and a half at the Arte Dimicatoria HEMA group. My opinions are not Arte Dimicatoria’s though, and their members may or may not agree with my views of these trainers. I fence mainly with the longsword, as it’s my favorite weapon. Other than the weapons listed on this review, I have handled and fenced with some other local wooden wasters, the Knightshop baskethilt sword simulator, the Hanwei Tinker longsword blunt simulator, the VA I-beam longsword, the Albion Meyer and Liechtenauer trainers and a ring hilted A&A Fechterspiel.
Initial Impressions
Sorry guys, but there was no unpacking here. Besides, these trainers don’t really shine through their looks.
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
I got this a while ago, so my first impressions are vague. I do remember thinking that it was a fairly elegant waster, feeling quite solid and with a nice grain in the wood. I also remember that during dry handling, it felt like a baseball bat. More to come…
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
The first time I handled this waster, I remember it feeling quite light. The reason I ordered it with the steel guard was to give a more sword like behavior, but it was still a tad light. Also, the blade had a slight warp to it, and was fairly flexible, maybe a tad much (although stiffer than a previous generation that I had tried that felt like a banana). The steel guard came with the matte finish, and I find the stainless steel one more elegant. Overall, it kind of looked like a toy.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Not a very pretty sword, although the handling surprised me. It felt pretty agile and fast. The grip looked kind of cheap (basically some sort tape put directly on the plastic). Much stiffer blade than the Rawlings though. It screams modern and machined.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
First impression? Woaahh, this thing is huge! My second impression was the utilitarian and austere look on it. No frills design, no decoration, just a training sword. And then, I picked it up. Oh mama. The handling. Despite the size, this feder is lighting fast and wieldy. The long handle feels a bit strange at first, as I’m accustomed to gripping my pommel, but you quickly get used to the extra leverage it provides. You will notice that I’ve gun blued the fittings.
Statistics
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Overall length: 48 inches
Blade: 37 inches
P.O.B.: 9 inches
Handle length: 7 inches
C.O.P.: lol
Weight: 2 pounds 3.7 ounces
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
Overall length: 49 inches
Blade: 38 inches
P.O.B: 4 ¾ inches
Handle length: 7 ¾ inches
C.O.P.: 24 inches
Weight: 2 pounds 6.7 ounces
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Overall length: 48 3/4
Blade length: 37
P.O.B: 2 1/3 inches
Handle length: 8 ¾ inches
C.O.P.: 22 ¾ inches
Weight: 2 pounds 10.7 ounces
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
Overall length: 52 1/3 inches
Blade 39 4/10 inches
P.O.B: 3 1/8 inches
Handle length: 10 inches
C.O.P.: 23 3/4
Weight: 3 pounds 3 ounces
Components
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
The Blade
The blade on this waster is fairly thick and heavy. No distal taper and a little profile taper. It also has a decorative fuller going down 2/3’s of the blade, with a short ricasso. The tip is round, and so are the edges, which are as thick as the blade. It’s extremely stiff. However, it’s very durable, although it requires some maintenance. You need to oil it with some kind of vegetal oil (I used canola oil) about once every month. Otherwise, the wood will dry and will crack, leading to catastrophic and potentially dangerous failures during use (we had one cracking into two pieces, both shaped like long spikes, yikes!). The “tang” is just the blade continuing and turning into the handle.
The Handle
A simple wooden handle with the corners rounded off. Pretty comfortable. It tapers down towards the pommel.
The Guard
A very thick wooden guard, held in place by a single central peg. Since it only has one peg, it will sometimes get slightly loose. We never had one failing on us though, so it’s quite solid. The downside of the thickness is that it can get on the way of certain techniques.
The Pommel
A pretty simple pear like pommel. Ground out from a different piece of wood than the handle, but it can’t be removed. A very comfortable design if you enjoy gripping the pommel as I do.
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This sword allows you to mix and match pommel/guard combinations, and I describe my favorite one below.
The Blade
A black blade with a polished plastic finish. It emulates a diamond cross section. It has a fair amount of both distal and profile taper, and the tip is round. The edges are also round, and only slightly thinner than the blade. It’s somewhat slippery, and also somewhat flexible. Unfortunately, they get more flexible over time. The tang is a piece of the same plastic continuing down, with a long steel screw threat going through it and inside the blade. I’m not sure how far down the blade this screw goes, but it probably goes down at least a third of the blade, as the blade tends to flex mostly on the last third.
The Handle
The handle is made out of a hollowed out piece of rubberm which tapers down towards the pommel. It lacks the stiffness of a piece of wood, which causes some pretty bad problems that I will describe below. It has a somewhat ovaloid profile, which makes edge alignment easier.
The Guard
You can pick between the plastic and the metal guard. I recommend the metal guard, even though it’s heavier than a typical longsword guard (but this helps balance out the sword). The plastic guard is somewhat flexible, which is not something you want if you parry an attack with it. Also, it makes the sword handle like a toy, given the lightness of the overall setup, making for a poor simulator. A metal guard makes it feel closer to a real sword. Since it’s made of stainless steel, it doesn’t rust.
However, a metal guard has a big downside. Since this sword is held together through the compression of a screw on pommel and the handle is made out of rubber, a rattle quickly develops with the guard. Every time you catch a blade with it, it bites into the plastic tang, slightly denting it. After a while, it weakens it, and the inner steel screw thread snaps at about an inch down the guard. This is not a freak event, but rather a common and almost inevitable occurrence. We used two of these swords extensively, and both broke in the exact same manner exactly 14 months after purchase. I’ve JB welded my guard into place to avoid this issue.
The Pommel
A plastic screw on pommel. I find it quite comfortable, as it lends itself naturally to gripping. Probably the most comfortable of the bunch, as the plastic seems to absorb some of the impact from your palm. A steel version is also available, but combined with the steel guard, it makes for a weird hilt heavy sword. Combined with a plastic guard, it creates a sword with 0 blade presence. Awful combination. Finally, there’s also a long plastic version. I’ve only tried it a few times, and it isn’t bad. Good for those who like really long handles.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
The Blade
The blade is rectangular, with both distal and profile taper. It begins with some sort of ricasso. The tip has a swelling where it gets thicker, and it’s rounded off. The edges are also rectangular, but with rounded off machined corners. I say machined because they seem to be ridged. This has an impact that I will describe below. This blade is stiffer than the Rawlings, but not excessively.
The Handle
It’s just the same piece of plastic going down. It has a rectangular rounded off profile, with the corners rounded off as well. It’s shaped in a somewhat ovaloid fashion, having a swell in the middle. It’s covered by some sort of black/plastic tape, which is neither pretty nor durable (one of the earlier ones we got is already half stripped off). However, it doesn’t really affect the handling, and the fact it’s made out of plastic makes it comfortable.
The Guard
A simple metal rod going through the base of the blade, with some plastic tips to avoid injuring your partners. It’s held together with a tiny metal peg. So far it’s pretty solid, and we’ve had no failures yet, although it tends to rust relatively fast and sometimes develops a rattle after some use (mine is so far rattleless). I’ve read and seen some reports of the sword failing at the guard/blade junction, but we haven’t had it happen yet.
The Pommel
A machined stainless steel pommel, of screw on design. Comfortable as well, although I find that the lower round ridge will sometimes transfer the impact of the strikes into your pommel if you grip it, which can be quite painful.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
The Blade
A VERY long blade, with a rectangular cross section. It has a wide schilt at the base, and then goes down towards the tip with a rectangular shape. Not very thick either, starting at about 4 mm (sorry, my measuring tape is more accurate in the metric system) and ending at 2 mms before the rounded tip. It also 2.4 cms wide right after the schilt, finishing at 1 cm. The edges are rounded. The blade has some flexibility, although it’s stiffer than an Albion Meyer. It has faced Albion Meyers, a VA I-beam and a A&A Fechterspiel, and the edges hold up very well (unlike the Hanwei Tinker which had to be retired after a month facing the Albions). The rounded tip is interesting, as it diffuses the impact of thrusts, making it safer. I don’t know of any historical equivalents.
The Handle
The handle is also very long, with a similar shape to the Pentti, but with the corners actually completely rounded off, and with more taper towards the pommel. It’s made out of wood, covered with a fabric string. The fabric is holding up well so far. I did notice a small click sometimes inside of the handle, so it may or may not be cracked, but it feels solid and the click causes no problem as of now. Comfortable as well, but the length required some time to get used to it. Gripping the pommel becomes almost impossible in some maneuvers, so it encourages you to shift your left hand up and down.
The Guard
Nothing fancy here. A relatively thin and square guard, ending in two rounded bulges. You can get it with either 28 or 25 cms of width, but I chose the 25 cms one (I find that swords with a really wide guard sometimes get in the way of your maneuvers, but it’s a matter of personal preference here). Solid, with no rattle. A fencing partner owns a similar sword, and his has developed a small rattle though, given the compression construction. Mine is still very solid.
The Pommel
A simple steel pear shaped pommel. Relatively small, but given that it’s pear shaped and without ridges, it’s more comfortable than the Pentti’s. It doesn’t bite the palm, and lends itself well to gripping. The pommel is peened.
Handling Characteristics
Before I begin, I’ll state my physical characteristics. I’m 5’7, and I weigh 162 pounds. I’m relatively strong for my size, as I work out several times a week. With these caveats in mind, let’s begin!
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Oh lord. There’s a reason why I haven’t used this waster for about a year. First of all, the first impression of a baseball bat proved to be true, again and again. With a P.O.B. of 9 inches, it feels extremely blade heavy. Given the blade heaviness, it’s quite sluggish and slow. There’s no finesse here, and quick maneuvers are difficult to pull off. The weight is also problematic for the shoulders, and I would often end up with a sore upper back (and I’m in fairly good shape). It strikes like a freight train, so you constantly have to pull your hits. It’s also very stiff, so the energy of the strike is “dissipated” by your opponent’s body. I remember that sparring with these simply sucked, as you would always get bruises, swelling and sometimes micro fractures. The stiffness also makes thrusting very dangerous (yet fencing without thrusting is not fencing). Basically, you need at least as much protective equipment as with steel swords, if not more. You can seriously hurt someone with these, and I think they are weapons in their own right.
In the bind, given the stiffness, reading what your opponent does is not easy, but not impossible, so it allows you to work there. However, the blade and the guard’s thickness once again make finesse complicated.
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
This is the archetype of the Purpleheart wooden wasters. It feels light, almost toylike. The sword version of the M-16 . Very very fast trainers, and the flexibility of the blade dissipates a lot of the energy of the strikes. A very agile trainer. It’s also quite safe, as very hard strikes will sting and maybe bruise, but unless you’re really trying to, it’s difficult to get injured by these. I’d say they’re quite fun, and other than a mask, some hand and throat protection, you can go at it with these without much gear. Good for those times when you feel like going all out in a lightning fast bout. Also good for long sessions, as they’re not as demanding on the shoulders as a heavier weapon. It’s not all good though, as the lightness can make you develop bad habits, and the flexible blade will sometimes help you score hits that you normally wouldn’t (along the lines of lobbing a blade around your opponent’s parry, à la Underworld, but with swords).
The experience is inferior in the bind. Indeed, the “polished” plastic surface makes the blade slip and slide as if there was detergent on the blades. Also, the flexibility makes reading the bind really hard, as you get no feedback. This leads to skipping this essential area of longsword fencing altogether.
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Handling is this blade’s strong point. It’s quite fast and responsive, albeit maybe slightly hilt heavy. It does have good tip control though. Unlike the Knightshop, it feels like an actual steel sword. The stiffer blade and the extra weight help in that regard. It also comes with some consequences. Stiffer blade equals less energy dissipated, and therefore, despite having a bit less blade presence, it hits harder than the Knightshop. It also means that you must thrust with care. Therefore, you need some sort of protection for the bony ends of your body (forearms and elbows come to mind). They tend to sting less than the Knightshop though, but they bite more. You need to be careful with pommel strikes with this one, as the steel pommel is big and could cause injury (just like a real sword).
In the bind, this sword is actually…fine! The stiffer blade gives good feedback, and the machined ridged corners of the blade create some kind of friction when the blades slip on each other. I don’t know if this is part of the design or simply a consequence of the production methods, but it improves the experience, allowing you to work there. Finally, the thin guard doesn’t get in the way, but it does force you to properly align your quillons when you parry. Otherwise, you may get some hits on your hands.
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
I’ve left the best for the end. I just love this sword’s handling. Sure, it’s long, but it handles marvelously. For those of you that have handled these other Feders, I’d say that it’s slightly less blade heavy than the Albion Meyer and the A&A Fechterspiel, and a lot less blade heavy than the Albion Liechtenauer. It’s difficult to explain, but this translates into a sword that you actually control through the pommel and left hand as opposed to your leading hand, and lends it a lot of tip control. The combination of the distal and profile taper and the big schilt make it a low polar moment feder, as lot of its weight is concentrated in the guard. Therefore, despite the length, it’s fast. The long handle gives you a lot of leverage as well, and makes some pommel hooking maneuvers easier (but as a downside, it opens you to opponents grabbing the handle or using hooking maneuvers on you). The long blade allows you to keep your opponent at bay, making for a good weapon for those who enjoy sniping . Finally, the blade’s proper stiffness means that it’s not whippy at all. I would put its handling on par with the Albions and A&As (but different), and above the VA. It goes without saying that you need to be fully equipped to spar with these (a padded vest/gambeson, good protective gloves, some forearm & elbow protection, fencing mask and throat protection).
In the bind, it behaves quite well. Again, the proper stiffness means it provides good feedback, and the thin guard doesn’t get in the way and yet, the schilt protects your hands.
This sword just feels right. For the price, it’s hard to beat.
Conclusions
Purpleheart Armory Longsword Waster
Pros
- Very durable
- Inexpensive
- Elegant
Cons
- Sluggish handling
- Very stiff
- Feels dead in the hand
- Hits like a freight train
Knightshop Rawlings Synthetic Longsword Xtreme , steel guard
Pros
- Fairly priced
- Very safe
- Decent handling (outside of the bind)
Cons
- Serious (but fixable) durability issues
- Unresponsive in the bind due to flexibility
- Looks like a toy
Synthetic Type III Pentti Longsword, stainless steel pommel
Pros
- Good handling
- Fairly priced
- Durable
- Good feedback in the bind
Cons
- Ugly
- The grip tape falls apart
- Requires protection for bony ends
Peter Regenyei standard Feder, pear shaped pommel, wide schilt
Pros
- Great handling
- Solid construction & durable edges
- Great feedback in the bind
- Great value for the money
Cons
- Pricier than some trainers (but miles away in terms of quality)
The Bottom Line
Would I recommend a Purpleheart Wooden Waster? No. Sure, they’re cheap, but they make fencing a chore and they ruin your shoulders. Just try to do some free play with them, and once you’re on the receiving end, you’ll understand.
How about the Knightshops? I would recommend them for those who are on a tight budged and can’t afford some protective gear, as they are quite safe and handle decently. However, you need to fix the guard securely in place. Otherwise, you’ll end up with a broken sword.
The Penttis are superior synthetic trainers in my view. They allow you to practice all aspects of fencing and are also reasonably priced. They don’t require too much protective gear (but more than the Knightshops). If you can’t or won’t use a steel trainer, these are the way to go. Recommended.
And finally, the Regenyei Feder. Compared to an Albion or an A&A, it’s much more reasonably priced. It handles just as well, and so far, it seems to be just as durable. Also, if you order through the Wild Geese Fencing store, the delivery time is way better than the two above trainers. Sure, this isn’t the one you’ll notice at the ball, but as a training tool, this one will keep you dancing all night long.