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Post by septofclansinclair on Sept 14, 2007 14:39:13 GMT
Hey all,
Just reading through the new Jack Whyte novel on the history of the Knights Templar, when he makes the statement that a common weight of Medieval swords was 14 pounds. Now, I'm not expert, but as nothing I own is over 5 pounds, this seems pretty freaking heavy to me. Was there some kind of different weight measurement called the "pound" that was much lighter than it is now, or does Whyte know as much about swords as he apparently knows about Templar history?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 15:44:43 GMT
I just saw a post yesterday somewhere in which someone quoted weapon weights from the wallace collection. They ranged between 3 and 6 pounds typically, this was mostly german hand and a half and 2 handed weapons iirc. I'm no expert but 14 pounds sounds ridiculous.
"The Templars and the Assassins" by James Wasserman is a very good read and seems to bear alot of insight into the templars -if you're looking for more reading on the subject.
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Post by Brian of DBK on Sept 14, 2007 16:09:08 GMT
The Conan sword is 8 pounds and thought of as a useless sword, so yeah, it sounds wrong.
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Post by rammstein on Sept 14, 2007 19:23:36 GMT
14 lbs is quite ridiculous. Obviously outdated victorian era BS was being used.
Normally, a longsword wouldn't get over 3 lbs. Some where heavier, of course, but the norm fell between 2 and 3 lbs. Even the monsterous greatswords of the renaissance - which were used for an entirely different purpose and needed the extra weight, did not go over 6 or 7 lbs typically. A heavy sword, IMO, is anything over 3 lbs. All I can say is: Any professor naive enough to say that a typical sword is 14 lbs neads to come to a cutting practice. I get tired swinging 3 lbs.
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Post by septofclansinclair on Sept 14, 2007 20:16:55 GMT
How hard is it for people to find this info? I'm not going to enjoy this book anymore. It's frustrating, there seem to be so few good historical novels about this era around. Lots of filler, not much good stuff.
Thanks guys.
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 14, 2007 20:28:13 GMT
My nephew is convinced that the sword arnold used in the conan movies weighed seventy pounds. I've showed him the stats from jody sampsons site to no avail. Some people. Ha.
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Post by rammstein on Sept 14, 2007 21:45:35 GMT
Sept I've got some very good recommendations for historical novels if you're interested. Send me a PM if you want them. I enjoyed these book very much, and have read them many times so far.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 1:42:12 GMT
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 15, 2007 9:18:52 GMT
To me it's simple math. I got a gen 2 12th century sword, I could be wrong but I figure the templars sword were near enough to that size. Anyhow it weighs 3 1/2 pounds. So either the steel in the old days was a lot heavier which I don't see how it could be that much heavier or their swords were like four times as big as mine. Doesn't add up to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2007 13:18:31 GMT
You are fighting a myth when it comes to actual sword weights, even if you give someone a sword to handle show them the weight they just are not going to believe. The reasearch was probably done quite well for the book you are reading in a academic sense, (which is pretty much copying what was writen before) I'm sure there was very little practical research done. While there were no standarized weights and measures system in the time period you are reading about it is very unlikely there would be that kind of difference.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2007 23:25:28 GMT
I am no expert but 14 pounds sounds a little heavy. It sounds like a sword that only the strongest of men would be able to wield effectively. I can see myself being able to pick such a sword up and swinging it once but aiming and stopping would be out of the question. Doesn't sound like a realistic weight for a sword. But what do I know.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2007 2:24:38 GMT
According to one of the actresses in the movie Dead or Alive she had to swing around two 15Lb swords when they filmed her fight on the stairs. Guess it was all trick photography to make her arms look smaller than the men in the film. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2007 1:28:45 GMT
14lbs is definately too heavy no doubt about it. As Charles pointed out if you swung it aiming would be ridiculously hard and stopping would be even harder.
As for good reads if your into Templars and want something thats based on fact ie Real people, places, actual events but still includes some fiction I recommend Robyn youngs Brethren and Crusades books.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2007 18:31:13 GMT
Out of print, but very very good- JERUSALEM by Cecelia Holland. Most other Templar/Crusades books go on about how idiotic Templar etc officers were, which apparently they were. Good scene in here where hero uses stick to best sword.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2007 0:08:33 GMT
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