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Post by Rafael on Nov 25, 2012 16:20:56 GMT
Hello. I would appreciate your opinions about this tang. I am not knowledgeable about the terminology, but i want to talk about the area where the tang transitions into the blade. On this sword, the tang has little half circular indentations or insets at either side of this area. With zero expertise, my first impression is that this is a bad idea since it makes a thinner location for the blade to fail/snap at. On the other hand, i guess i could see how structurally speaking a rounded transition might be more stable versus a straight right angle with an obvious stress point at the base of the angle. But, if it were a benefit then i guess i would probably have seen it before. So what do you guys (or gals) think, was this born as a wall hanger because of the design? Attachments:
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 25, 2012 16:23:27 GMT
Definitely no good. And I've seen the same tang on Lung Chuan (China made) war sword. Is it the same for you?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 25, 2012 16:25:52 GMT
I've found that the tang of such Chinese swords were welded on after some investigations.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 25, 2012 16:40:50 GMT
yep it came from china. on a Han Jian from ebay www.ebay.com/itm/200782216410?ss ... 1497.l2649 this is from the guy called Yao. I already complained to him about the handle which was made of crappy semi-broken wood which allowed the blade to wobble around. He promised to send me a new handle. His response time is pretty fast, but the quality seems very poor, at least on the sub $200 stuff. Some other peoples have said his more expensive stuff is higher quality.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 25, 2012 16:52:26 GMT
It was the model I was talking about. Don't hold any hope on them. The whole lung chuan couldn't make this right.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 25, 2012 16:56:42 GMT
very depressing, i ordered from Yao after reading from other SBG members about how reputable he is. I have to take this as evidence that the guy is definitely not making the swords himself but is instead getting them made from some low end producer. Maybe when he does his higher price custom jobs the quality is higher. Stuff like this in the 2-300$ range and with multiple items available is probably going to be more utter garbage.
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 25, 2012 17:52:54 GMT
not great really. shouldrs should have a radiused corner- just a soft curv to the corner- not a 3/4 circle ground out of them.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 25, 2012 18:29:44 GMT
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Kuya
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Posts: 1,396
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Post by Kuya on Nov 25, 2012 21:17:22 GMT
The nakago tang on the katana I bought from this person was in good shape. We've all come to the conclusion, that while a different person/shop, the swords themselves probably come from the same big forges that Ryan Swords and the myriad of other eBay sellers get them from.
Please, do a review on the sword, so there will be an indexed entry in the review section, and others can know that the tangs of the Chinese styled swords are sub-par.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 28, 2012 0:42:39 GMT
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Post by Jieikobu on Dec 1, 2012 1:33:05 GMT
Hello. I first want to apollogize for I am a beginner on this forum, am only 17, and have no (current) bladesmith background. The follwing is just going to be my own, "two cents worth." Sorry if I am posting wrong. Again, never done this before. Anyway, my reccommendation, if you feel like it, would be to remove the current tang and cut one into the blade. You will end up with a dagger or short sword, but at least your money and metal wont have gone to waste. I have two swords of my own that I plan on doing this to once I have enough money. If you like your sword as is, have already fixed it, or thrown it out, disregard this message. Haha, sorry for any bugging.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Dec 1, 2012 12:31:20 GMT
[/attachment][/quote]
That spot you are asking about does look like the area where the metal will break sooner or later. The metal of the tang does not really seem to my eyes to be a natural extension of the metal of the blade, rather to me it looks like a thin piece of metal was welded onto the blade here.
If the sword will be used to cut or used at all, then I have a concern that the back and forth twisting movements will bend this weak joint back and forth enough time to snap off at this point.
I wish they would have made this joint thicker.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Dec 1, 2012 15:20:05 GMT
The only real issue is that the handle didn't fit properly, which is a commonplace issue for mass produced Chinese swords. There are no weld marks on the tan where it connects to the blade. Either they did a STUPENDOUS job in welding, or it's part of the same piece of metal. Odds are highly that it's the latter. I have seen thinner tangs on functional and historic swords (and so has the original poster). These old swords with crazy thin tangs were actually used for targets that were more immovable than bottles, mats, and branches... and they turned out OK. Do not be a fear monger.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Dec 1, 2012 15:44:30 GMT
If I remember the term from BladeSmithing correctly, this is called a "Stress riser" and it is a well known area to fail.
The OP is correct, the far better design would be for a wider and more smooth curve to go from the blade to the tang.
The sword in the photo shows us how the maker did the transition and how he got the tang end of the cutting blade to be straight. What we see is that he used a chop saw, or a cut-off saw. You can see the actual marks left by the thickness of the cutting disk.
Normally what a person does is grind the tang edge only sorta close to the final lines, then use files and take his time so as to not cut into the tang more than needed.
Now I cant predict the future, so i have no real way to tell you that this handle will break off one day or not.
also, if you look at the photos above my post here you will see a photo of an older historical sword. what I would point out is when you look at this same area on the historical sword you see the wider and curved transition that i was talking about.
This wider and curved design helps lower the stress on the handle during strikes. You get this type of curve when you use files and go slow when making the sword.
All I can say for sure, is that this type of joint between the blade and tang is a well known area for concern and that it will receive the most twisting stress of the whole sword. And that the indentations in the most critical area of the tang represent a point of potential failure.
So be careful with the sword....
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Dec 1, 2012 18:05:09 GMT
I know that it's not the best form, or proper. It should be wider and not cut into at that area. But even as thin as narrow as the joining point is, it's not going to break as easy as you're making it out to be. I see the handle failing (or something bending) before the tang does and sends the blade flying. You'd have to hit it against something immovable with no give and be trying to break it. Even cutting stands have enough give to not snap blades/tangs if they get hit by accident.
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Post by Rafael on Dec 2, 2012 5:30:38 GMT
i wish this was the most dissapointing ebay sword i ever got lol =/ Im thinking probably with a fixerupper handle, or maybe if the guy does send me a new handle, it will work better. i do sort of like the idea of cutting off the thin tang and filing down blade to make a new sturdy tang on a shorter blade. with a relatively short bladed sword, it wouldnt need as long of a handle (or as long of tang).
thanks for the input, I appreciate it. Guess i will also send the photos to Yao and see if he will do some credit towards the custom job. that might help influence me to actually go through with it.
at this point i think i might be better off counting the 100$ as lost rather than throw more money after bad. OTOH, his reputation for japanese swords is very good. ultimately it will come down to pics i guess. /sigh
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